Did you know? Triumph Motorcycles was also a German brand?

[p6x]

Unfortunately, it is in French, and there are no English subtitles.

Triumph was created by a German, Mr Bettman and with manufacturing in both UK and Germany! Beginning of the 19th century. During WW1, Triumph in Germany will also start producing office equipment. Some of us may have seen Triumph typewriters?

Following WW1, Triumph Germany started to deviate from the motorcycles built in UK. They were producing small capacity two strokes like the one shown at the beginning of the video.

In 1929, Triumph UK and Triumph Germany separated completely. One of the clause was that Triumph Germany would not be allowed to commercialize motorcycles outside Germany using the Triumph name. For the Export, they were named TWN for Triumph Werke Nürnberg A.G. The production was almost exclusively 2 strokes.

The BD250 was exclusively produced for the German Army, using innovative techniques for the time. Aluminium engine, the carburator is at the crank level, feeding a rotating disc which was later used in competition. This was designed in 1939...

Triumph Germany will vanish in the middle of the 50's, bought by Gründing, a consumer electronics company. it is thought that Gründing bought Triumph Germany for their office equipment. Triumph motorcycles Germany activity will definitively cease in 1957.

The second part of the video is about the German made motorcycles that served under WW2. Germany was the only country with specific motorcycle regiments involved in the war.

The BMW R12 was equipped with a carburetor heating system, and conceived with a low compression ratio to be able to use low octane gas/petrol.

The other two motorcycles shown are D.K.W.; they were the most common during these times. Their usage was mostly message delivery between units. The riders spent up to 18 hours riding them...

 

[Lucky Phil]

Did you know the iconic Spitfire elliptical wing was actually a German design?

 

Phil

[Bill Hagan]

 

My German grandfather had a Triumph-Werke Nürnberg AG (TWN) motorcycle in Wurmlingen (SW Germany near the Bodensee) in the early '30's.  Do not know the model ,but he and it were quite the hits with the local kids.  My mother loved riding with him on it, and those memories lasted for her lifetime.

Here I am taking her for a spin on her 80th birthday in 2000.  She passed in 2018.

 

 

Bill

[p6x]

5 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Did you know the iconic Spitfire elliptical wing was actually a German design?

 

Phil

I did not.

But I did read a lot about the differences between the German and English respective engines that equipped their respective planes, and how performance compared at various flight levels. The DB 605 was such a technological marvel of engineering; fuel injected when the Merlin had carburetors. One of the main drawback the pilots experienced was the low octane fuel Germany had to use, while the allies had access to better quality kerosene.

Therefore, I knew about "Miss Shilling's orifice".

I was more interested in the Messerschmidt Bf 109 engine, while ultimately my favorite was Kurt Tank's Fw 190 in terms of design. A very interesting man, that dispensed his art also in Argentina and in India.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, Bill Hagan said:

 

My German grandfather had a Triumph-Werke Nürnberg AG (TWN) motorcycle in Wurmlingen (SW Germany near the Bodensee) in the early '30's.  Do not know the model ,but he and it were quite the hits with the local kids.  My mother loved riding with him on it, and those memories lasted for her lifetime.

Here I am taking her for a spin on her 80th birthday in 2000.  She passed in 2018.

 

 

Bill

I love that you have those important moments with you....

 

[p6x]

I found him: Ludwig Prandtl.

If you don't like the Fw 190, skip to 5:35

 

[Lucky Phil]

7 hours ago, p6x said:

I did not.

But I did read a lot about the differences between the German and English respective engines that equipped their respective planes, and how performance compared at various flight levels. The DB 605 was such a technological marvel of engineering; fuel injected when the Merlin had carburetors. One of the main drawback the pilots experienced was the low octane fuel Germany had to use, while the allies had access to better quality kerosene.

Therefore, I knew about "Miss Shilling's orifice".

I was more interested in the Messerschmidt Bf 109 engine, while ultimately my favorite was Kurt Tank's Fw 190 in terms of design. A very interesting man, that dispensed his art also in Argentina and in India.

Gasoline. Yes the Germans had the burden of high octane fuel in insufficient quantities and quality. They also used aromatics to boost the octane that had a higher vapour point and resulted in sever fuel dilution which destroyed engine bearings. Big issue for them for a while. They were also short of Nickle for exhaust valves which led to them developing chrome plated exhaust valves. They were fighting with one hand tied behind their backs in engineering terms thankfully for us. It took the allies over a year to figure out the Nitrous oxide injection the German were using. They found the systems fitted in crashed German aircraft but they couldn't figure out the gas they were using. A lot of the German piston engine tech was lost after the war when the gas turbine took over and designers are now starting to use what they developed in WW2 in modern engine design such as Direct gasoline injection.

Yes I've seen just about all of Gregs video's and he's very good although my Spitfire wing knowledge comes from another source Gregs backs up my readings on the subject. His car stuff is good as well.

The English post war had a knack of burying the brilliance of the "non English" and exaggerating their own peoples contribution. The winners write the history as it were.

Phil  

[p6x]

To support the Octane discussion, I propose you watch this document which shed some light on its influence on (airplane) engines...

 

[audiomick]

Very interesting.

 

But the bloke is a bit of a nerd, isn't he.

[Lucky Phil]

10 minutes ago, audiomick said:

Very interesting.

 

But the bloke is a bit of a nerd, isn't he.

He's better than a nerd. He's also a commercial pilot with a captains rating for a major US airline, owns two performance car tuning and accessory companies and has written a few books on automotive turbocharging. He knows his stuff.

Phil

[audiomick]

26 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

He knows his stuff.

I never doubted that. And being a nerd is not entirely a bad thing, as long as it doesn't get out of hand.

[p6x]

Has anyone asked himself why is manifold pressure quoted as pressure and not depression? since the pistons draw the mixture in the admission phase, the pressure in the intake pipe/manifold should be below atmospheric? Correct? obviously because it is above 0, then it is still a pressure, even if inferior to 14.7 psia

It is measured in inches of water, so 1 inch is 0.04 (.036) psig, or mm of mercury, the SI unit is the hPa (hecto pascal) which easier to use, because 1 hPa = 0.001 Bar.

Obviously, we are not as concerned as in aviation, since we are almost always riding at atmospheric pressure.

What is the intake pressure of our V11? does anyone know?

 

 

[audiomick]

4 hours ago, p6x said:

Has anyone asked himself why is manifold pressure quoted as pressure and not depression? since the pistons draw the mixture in the admission phase, the pressure in the intake pipe/manifold should be below atmospheric? Correct? 

It seems logical to me to state the pressure relative to 0 Bar, as is the norm for pressure measurements generally. You are quite right that the manifold pressure in a normally aspirated engine will be lower than the current ambient atmospheric pressure. However, ambient amtmospheric pressure is far from constant. I am also fairly convinced that the difference in pressure in the manifold compared to ambient atmospheric pressure would vary depending on what the ambient atmospheric pressure currently actually is.

Therefore, stating the manifold pressure in relation to the ambient atmospheric pressure would be likely to be rather complicated, and require an accompanying statement of the current atmospheric pressure.

 

[Speedfrog]

22 hours ago, audiomick said:

But the bloke is a bit of a nerd, isn't he.

[Lucky Phil]

7 hours ago, p6x said:

Has anyone asked himself why is manifold pressure quoted as pressure and not depression? since the pistons draw the mixture in the admission phase, the pressure in the intake pipe/manifold should be below atmospheric? Correct? obviously because it is above 0, then it is still a pressure, even if inferior to 14.7 psia

It is measured in inches of water, so 1 inch is 0.04 (.036) psig, or mm of mercury, the SI unit is the hPa (hecto pascal) which easier to use, because 1 hPa = 0.001 Bar.

Obviously, we are not as concerned as in aviation, since we are almost always riding at atmospheric pressure.

What is the intake pressure of our V11? does anyone know?

 

 

It's a question without a definitive answer. What throttle position? what altitude? what rpm? what load? Throttle at idle? throttle closed and engine at 3000rpm?

Phil