Is my Electrosport Stator Defective?

[docc]

Back to the basics:

What is the DC voltage, across the battery terminals:

1) Key off , after a few hours

2) Key on, engine off (KOEO)

3) Engine running, at "idle" (idle rpm can vary widely between our selections: 600 rpm to 1500 rpm)

4) at "some rpm" - in this case: what happens to charging voltage as the rpm rises from, say, 2500 to 4000 . . .

[gstallons]

Let me study my wiring diagram(s) and see what to test and the test sequence . This bike is a red frame and you did get the correct regulator ? 

One diagram shows 5 wires going into the regulator connector with a separate ground wire going to the regulator case. The other style shows 6 wires going into the wiring connector(s). The regulator w/5 wires has the output going straight to the charge light and the harness w/6 wires goes all over the place before going to the charge light.

 The fact the charge light works means this circuit is intact. Have you installed a regular headlamp bulb to make sure this circuit has the same resistance as it should?

Edited Monday at 09:07 AM by gstallons

[Sam P]

12 hours ago, docc said:

Back to the basics:

What is the DC voltage, across the battery terminals:

1) Key off , after a few hours

2) Key on, engine off (KOEO)

3) Engine running, at "idle" (idle rpm can vary widely between our selections: 600 rpm to 1500 rpm)

4) at "some rpm" - in this case: what happens to charhing voltage as the rpm rises from, say, 2500 to 4000 . . .

1) 13v

2)12.8v

3)12.3v

4)12.3v

Light is off at 1,2,and 3

Light only comes on when revved to 3-4K RPM

 

[Sam P]

4 hours ago, gstallons said:

Let me study my wiring diagram(s) and see what to test and the test sequence . This bike is a red frame and you did get the correct regulator ? 

One diagram shows 5 wires going into the regulator connector with a separate ground wire going to the regulator case. The other style shows 6 wires going into the wiring connector(s). The regulator w/5 wires has the output going straight to the charge light and the harness w/6 wires goes all over the place before going to the charge light.

 The fact the charge light works means this circuit is intact. Have you installed a regular headlamp bulb to make sure this circuit has the same resistance as it should?

>Yes red frame 2001.

>New regulator linked here: https://www.electrosport.com/collections/street-motorcycles-moto-guzzi-2001-v11-sport/products/esr515-regulator-rectifier-ducati-1-phase-charge-light-output

>I have not installed an incandescent or halogen headlight bulb. 

[Pressureangle]

Has someone replaced the instrument warning lamps with LED? The charge lamp, with the stock or stock-arranged VR needs an incandescent bulb to work. By the schematic, the headlamp bulb itself has no effect- it takes power from the same wire but isn't between the charge lamp and regulator. 

[Sam P]

1 hour ago, Pressureangle said:

Has someone replaced the instrument warning lamps with LED? The charge lamp, with the stock or stock-arranged VR needs an incandescent bulb to work. By the schematic, the headlamp bulb itself has no effect- it takes power from the same wire but isn't between the charge lamp and regulator. 

I don't think those bulbs are LED. I have owned the bike since February, put 7K miles on it since then, and the lamps have been functioning correctly until a week or so ago, when the charge light started coming on at 4K rpm.  This is when I replaced both the stator and the regulator.

After checking the DC volts at the battery this morning, and seeing the same volts (12.3) both at idle AND at 3-4K rpm, I will now look again at the stator AC output to the regulator and report back.

Edited Monday at 02:32 PM by Sam P

[Sam P]

AC volts coming from the alternator just now are 24v at idle and 60v revved at 3K rpm. So, it would appear that the regulator is getting power from the alternator, perhaps too much power (see my OP.) 

Not sure if the the 12.3v DC at the battery with the engine running is what it is supposed to be. Waiting to hear from @docc on this from a few posts ago.

Maybe there is an issue with the butt connectors from the yellow stator wires (output) to the yellow (input) regulator wires? Not sure how to troubleshoot that....

[LaGrasta]

Long thread, forgive me as I haven't read it.

Having just gone through this, I chased so many items, spent unnecessary amounts on new parts, only to find that a power wire directly to the battery fixed all my problems. I now have thousands of miles of confirmation under me.

To be fair, Electrosport advises this additional wire, and they were right. This probably would have fixed my charging problem even with all of the OEM parts as well.

[docc]

56 minutes ago, Sam P said:

AC volts coming from the alternator just now are 24v at idle and 60v revved at 3K rpm. So, it would appear that the regulator is getting power from the alternator, perhaps too much power (see my OP.) 

Not sure if the the 12.3v DC at the battery with the engine running is what it is supposed to be. Waiting to hear from @docc on this from a few posts ago.

Maybe there is an issue with the butt connectors from the yellow stator wires (output) to the yellow (input) regulator wires? Not sure how to troubleshoot that....

Ah, yes, that system is not charging at the battery at all. It should be 13.8-14.2vDC at some rpm, idle somewhat lower, but not that low. 
 

Those yellow alternator connectors do benefit from a clean, tighten, and seal. Some folks eliminate the connectors and hard wire there to eliminate that potential trouble spot.

 

Still a mystery why there is no battery light KOEO. I am still suspecting an open connection somewhere: across the 30 fuse or an errant ring terminal that got left off either the positive or negative battery terminal.

 

Also, cannot rule out a faulty new part (R/R). There's a name for that . . .

[Sam P]

11 minutes ago, LaGrasta said:

Long thread, forgive me as I haven't read it.

Having just gone through this, I chased so many items, spent unnecessary amounts on new parts, only to find that a power wire directly to the battery fixed all my problems. I now have thousands of miles of confirmation under me.

To be fair, Electrosport advises this additional wire, and they were right. This probably would have fixed my charging problem even with all of the OEM parts as well.

The other day I ran a 10GA red wire from reg output (red) to battery +, per your suggestion in another charging thread. My problem lies elsewhere, I believe. 

[Sam P]

29 minutes ago, docc said:

Ah, yes, that system is not charging at the battery at all. It should be 13.8-14.2vDC at some rpm, idle somewhat lower, but not that low. 
 

Those yellow alternator connectors do benefit from a clean, tighten, and seal. Some folks eliminate the connectors and hard wire there to eliminate that potential trouble spot.

 

Still a mystery why there is no battery light KOEO. I am still suspecting an open connection somewhere: across the 30 fuse or an errant ring terminal that got left off either the positive or negative battery terminal.

 

Also, cannot rule out a faulty new part (R/R). There's a name for that . . .

I will install heat shrink butt connectors from the stator yellow wires to the reg and report back. The stator came from Electrosport with 16GA female spade connectors, fwiw. Thanks. 

Edited Monday at 06:00 PM by Sam P

[Pressureangle]

2 hours ago, Sam P said:

AC volts coming from the alternator just now are 24v at idle and 60v revved at 3K rpm. So, it would appear that the regulator is getting power from the alternator, perhaps too much power (see my OP.) 

Not sure if the the 12.3v DC at the battery with the engine running is what it is supposed to be. Waiting to hear from @docc on this from a few posts ago.

Maybe there is an issue with the butt connectors from the yellow stator wires (output) to the yellow (input) regulator wires? Not sure how to troubleshoot that....

Ok, let's get serious.
Documented points of failure;
30a fuse, fuse holder, wire terminals
Charge wire to battery
Yellow gen-to-VR wires (I had this one, and the bike I have up right now shows heat burns at the junction, even though they've had the connectors eliminated) 

Since you have a non-stock VR, let's have a pic so we can see the wires; I have a Shindengen on my Aermacchi, it has 3 yellow inputs, a ground, and a battery charge wire. There is no separate sensor wire, or 'illumination' wire for a charge lamp. Yours must have a lamp wire?

To test a wire where there is no access, you have to puncture it- not a fan. Your generator is making voltage, you still seem worried about how high it is; a permanent magnet generator makes voltage as a function of RPM so it's normal and nothing to worry about. The next steps are;
1. See that generator voltage is received at the VR. I would allow the assumption that if you make a firm connection at the yellow wire junctions, this is true.
2. See that the VR is giving 13.5-15volts DC as near to the VR as you can measure- the first connection. You can measure this without disconnecting the VR from the system.
3. If the VR has voltage, you have to confirm voltage without drop across every connection and wire all the way to the battery. You need a test light for this, as a DMM can measure open circuit voltage that has no amperage and you can't tell. A test lamp demands current to light. The DMM can measure voltage drop across a connection, you should never have more than *-.05v* across any connection. Between the two devices you can chase the fault all the way back to the battery. If the VR never makes more than 13v, or if it makes above 15, it's suspect but still subject to measuring voltage across faulty connections. 

A good starting place is the fuse block. Every fuse should always have full battery voltage. If you find that any fuse measures less voltage than the battery itself, either key off or engine running, you have a faulty connection. Have a good look at the ring terminals that attach to the battery itself, to see that they're not corroded beneath the insulation. 

[Speedfrog]

2 hours ago, docc said:

Also, cannot rule out a faulty new part (R/R). There's a name for that . . .

Premature Component Failure . . . 

[Sam P]

1 hour ago, Pressureangle said:

Since you have a non-stock VR, let's have a pic so we can see the wires

Thanks for all of your suggestions - I really appreciate them and will get to work on them tomorrow. In the meantime, see the photo pasted below.

[audiomick]

36 minutes ago, Sam P said:

...see the photo pasted below.

So that would be the one behind this link. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a lot in the way of documentation on the site.

https://www.electrosport.com/collections/street-motorcycles-moto-guzzi-2001-v11-sport/products/esr515-regulator-rectifier-ducati-1-phase-charge-light-output