Is my Electrosport Stator Defective?

[Pressureangle]

2 minutes ago, audiomick said:

So that would be the one behind this link. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a lot in the way of documentation on the site.

https://www.electrosport.com/collections/street-motorcycles-moto-guzzi-2001-v11-sport/products/esr515-regulator-rectifier-ducati-1-phase-charge-light-output

Plugs to stock harness, has charge lamp circuit. Should be a no-brainer. 
'Still collating data', Ash would say. 

[audiomick]

10 minutes ago, audiomick said:

... Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be a lot in the way of documentation on the site.

...

What I did find is this. I only read it fairly quickly, but it seems to cover pretty much everything as far as I can tell with my level of knowledge. They don't explain exactly what fault they are looking for at each step, but I could tell from the test itself what nearly all of them were. A potentially useful document, I think, not only for the case in hand.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1091/5694/files/fault-finding-diagram.pdf?235929069374954073

[Pressureangle]

41 minutes ago, audiomick said:

What I did find is this. I only read it fairly quickly, but it seems to cover pretty much everything as far as I can tell with my level of knowledge. They don't explain exactly what fault they are looking for at each step, but I could tell from the test itself what nearly all of them were. A potentially useful document, I think, not only for the case in hand.

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1091/5694/files/fault-finding-diagram.pdf?235929069374954073

Yes, complicated for a novice but as easy as it can be while being complete. 
I'm hoping for something obvious like the charge wire, but it's starting to feel like a bad component. 
I wish it was clear whether the lamp wire is a voltage sense source, or simply a lamp balancing act. 

[audiomick]

21 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

I'm hoping for something obvious like the charge wire, but it's starting to feel like a bad component. 
I wish it was clear whether the lamp wire is a voltage sense source, or simply a lamp balancing act. 

As for the first: I'm still thinking of a bad connection. The alternator seems to be doing it's thing, but it seems the volts aren't getting to the regulator. The only thing is that the charge light isn't coming on when the key is turned on. As far as I understand it, it must if it is lighting up at higher revs. Don't know what's going on there.

To the second point, I've attempted to attach a PDF from @Kiwi_Roy of the original regulator. It seems to be a lamp balancing act. Whether or not the Electrosport regulator/rectifier works the same way, I don't know. 

Regulator Schematic - Basic.pdf

Edited Monday at 10:48 PM by audiomick

[Pressureangle]

15 minutes ago, audiomick said:

As for the first: I'm still thinking of a bad connection. The alternator seems to be doing it's thing, but it seems the volts aren't getting to the regulator. The only thing is that the charge light isn't coming on when the key is turned on. As far as I understand it, it must if it is lighting up at higher revs. Don't know what's going on there.

To the second point, I've attempted to attach a PDF from @Kiwi_Roy of the original regulator. It seems to be a lamp balancing act. Whether or not the Electrosport regulator/rectifier works the same way, I don't know. 

Regulator Schematic - Basic.pdf 37.87 kB · 1 download

Awesome. So as Phil said early, the headlight circuit is the voltage reference source, and the regulator actually uses reference to turn the lamp on and off, not a simple balancing act. So now there are 2 considerations, the reverence voltage and the delivery voltage. Easy enough to verify reference, via connectors all the way to the regulator. If the reference matches battery voltage *with key on*, then it's a delivery problem; that has 2 elements, the VR itself and the delivery circuit. 

[gstallons]

Sam , according to your post , after replacement........... So , this problem existed before you replaced everything. No light w/ KOEO, light on at high RPMs and overcharging.

 The problem is going to be with the charge light circuit.  Since the light does not come on KOEO ,  With the KOEO , disconnect the connector w/the black wire and white wire. First use a test light and ground the white wire of the engine harness and see if the light comes on. If not use a jumper wire to see if the light comes on. If it still does not come on the problem exists in this circuit. 

[Speedfrog]

“KOEO” . . . That acronym makes my head spin  . . . On or Off???

[audiomick]

Just now, Speedfrog said:

“ . . . On or Off???

Key off, engine on... 

[Speedfrog]

1 minute ago, audiomick said:

Key off, engine on... 

Key off, Engine off!!

[Speedfrog]

4 minutes ago, audiomick said:

Key off, engine on... 

Knowing the level of sophistication of the Italian electrical system . . . It could well happen 

[Pressureangle]

5 minutes ago, Speedfrog said:

Knowing the level of sophistication of the Italian electrical system . . . It could well happen 

 We discovered at the SSR a couple years ago that the taillight on my 'Sport would come on by itself after an hour or so. No key anywhere. 

Relevant to this thread, it was the ignition switch goo come to life as a capacitor.

Edited Tuesday at 05:19 PM by Pressureangle

[Speedfrog]

1 minute ago, Pressureangle said:

 We discovered at the SSR a couple years ago that the taillight on my 'Sport would come on by itself after an hour or so. No key anywhere. 

AI built-in . . . 

[PJPR01]

Maybe Key On, Engine Off...also a possibility.   

Do you have an external voltage reader attached to the battery to check volts, while off and while running?  

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CJXTMT3Z?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DJ5KE9A?ref_=ppx_hzsearch_conn_dt_b_fed_asin_title_2

Edited Tuesday at 05:24 PM by PJPR01

[Speedfrog]

1 minute ago, PJPR01 said:

Maybe Key On, Engine Off...also a possibility.

Key On, Engine On . . . also works. 

[audiomick]

The weird thing is that the lamp is not coming on when the ignition is switched on, but does light at higher revs.

I'm referring to the schematic of the original regulator from Kiwi Roy that I attached here

and to the wiring diagramme on page 364 of this workshop manual, which I believe is the correct one for the bike

https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/V11_1999-2003_Atelier(Compil-GB-D-NL).pdf

The lamp comes on at higher revs, so we know for sure it is getting power, at least under those conditions. The power arriving there is shared by the oil light, the fuel level light, and the tacho. As I understand the diagram, it is not the tacho backlight, so if the tacho is working at all engine speeds, I'm assuming the power feed to the charge lamp is there all the time (for now) as the feed appears to be the same one that powers the tacho.

Therefore, I suspect some sort of intermittent contact, in the lamp or on the way to the regulator, that is finding contact due to vibration a higher revs only. Bear in mind that an incandescent light bulb reacts slowly, so a barely separated contact that is finding intermittent contact due to vibrations could well be enough to make it look like it is lighting constantly.

Referring to the Kiwi Roy schematic, the warning light comes on when the regulator switches the line coming from the warning light to ground. Therefore, contacting that wire to ground to check the lamp, as @gstallons suggested, is the way to check the lamp. According to the wiring diagram, however, that wire is light blue, not white. 

Whatever, given the described behaviour, if the lamp doesn't come on (Key on, engine off) with that light blue wire connected to ground, I would start the engine and see what happens at the engine speed at which it has been coming on. This is to test the "intermittent connection" theory against "the regulator is doing weird things".

If it looks like there is an intermittant connection, it could be in the lamp itself, or in the socket. The next step along is in the connector number 8 at the bottom left of the wiring diagram, which I understand is the connector from the loom to the dashboard. After that, the connector at the regulator. Or a break in the actual wire.

To cross check...

Put the multi-meter on the Ohms setting, and measure the resistance (key on, engine off) between the connector on the regulator that the wire from the warning lamp connects to and ground (engine casing, battery minus...). That should be very close to zero(as I said, key on, engine off). Then start the engine. If the regulator is doing the right thing, the resistance should now be very high, effectively infinite. If not, the first guess is that the volts from the alternator aren't getting into the regulator, or the regulator might be dodgy.

Now rev the engine slowly up to the revs at which the lamp was coming on. If the measured resistance was very high (infinite) right from the start and suddenly drops at high revs, it would seem that the regulator is doing weird stuff that I can't explain right now.

I rather suspect that the measured resistance will turn out to be close to zero the whole time. That would indicate that the regulator isn't getting the volts from the alternator (or is faulty) and that there is an intermittent, vibration sensitive fault in the warning lamp circuit preventing the lamp from lighting all the time as the switch in the regulator is "telling" it to.

In other words, I think it is possible that there are two problems happening simultaneously making it difficult to find either one.

 

Edited Tuesday at 06:05 PM by audiomick