Guest si1100 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Like you it is all news to me - and not very good news at that. The clutch on my 2002 Scura works fine, but does appear to be making more noise to when I bought it with 900 miles on the clock. Will call local dealer to find out what is going on. 4 failures is 4 failures to many, especially as Guzzi should now know there must be some kind of problem that should be researched. Can anyone out there give a clue on the potential noises to look out for - difficult one I know. So can I take it there are no instances of the genuine RAM clutch (as fitted to the Rosso Mandello) failing in a fashion similar to the 'improved' Guzzi version as fitted to the Scura & Tenni? Whilst this board was down I posted a fairlydetailed notification message to the Moto Guzzi Owners Club Great Britain Yahoo Group board. After a week there has not been one acknowledgement, let alone comment. I don't know why I bothered! I spoke to my dealer on this issue & he contacted Guzzi about it. The response he reported to me was that there was not a recall for it because an insufficient percentage of that model have suffered this failure! Maybe they want to wait until someone is maimed or killed! He went on to say that if he exaggerated the state of the noise of the clutch he may be able to get a replacement...but only a direct replacement of the original flawed design. I haven't given up on this yet...It is a safety issue & whoever owns the company has a vested interest in resolving it quickly. Maybe a letter to Motor Cycle News is in order? Nige. 33844[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi323 Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Can anyone out there give a clue on the potential noises to look out for - difficult one I know. 34377[/snapback] Well I'm not talking about the typical and normal clutch rattle noise. Mine was making a heavy 'clank' noise when transitioning from on/off or off/on throttle. I try to pay attention to all the little noises my bikes make and this was only happening during the first minute of running. Everything in my clutch looks fine other than the flywheel bolts weren't as tight as I would think they ought to be. If I was clever I would have checked the torque it takes to loosen them, alas it seems I'm not clever. While talking to MG Cycles today to order my new bolts and friction plate I became convinced that the clutches on Scuras are the RAM clutch. They've found this clutch to be very reliable. I think the few exploding Scura problems have been from incorrect bolt torque at the factory. That's my story and I'm sticking to it (until my flywheel comes hurling out of my cases at me. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 27, 2004 Share Posted September 27, 2004 Use locktite on the bolts when you reassemble, just to be on the safe side. For what it's worth, 200 miles and counting on my RAM clutch in the Eldorado. Yeah, that's a punisher. Actually, I have a question about these two bikes. The RAM needs a much longer pull to engage than the old stock clutch- at least it does on the Eldo. It is sufficiently long throw that a dog-leg clutch lever off a new machine won't fully disengage the clutch. The older, straight, lever works just fine. I guess the hydraulic clutch in the modern machine has enough pull (?) because the lever is definitely dog-legged. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballacraine Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I think the few exploding Scura problems have been from incorrect bolt torque at the factory. That's my story and I'm sticking to it (until my flywheel comes hurling out of my cases at me. ) 34381[/snapback] Would incorrect torque on the bolts cause the fracturing of the aluminium flywheel? Does the genuine RAM clutch use an aluminium flywheel? Nige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi323 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 Would incorrect torque on the bolts cause the fracturing of the aluminium flywheel? Does the genuine RAM clutch use an aluminium flywheel? 34426[/snapback] I'm no structural engineer or anything but it's easy for me to imagine that if the bolts weren't quite tight enough the flywheel would be able to rotate a little in relation to the crank and in time slowly hammer itself to pieces. One thing that does surprise me with regards to the stock setup is that the flywheel bolts are threaded all the way up the length. I'm thinking of checking out my local industrial fastener place and seeing if they can get my some similar bolts with a shoulder to better fit the flywheel. Yes, the RAM clutch assembly uses an aluminium flywheel. My setup looks exactly like the RAM clutch pictured here... mgcyclesClutch You'll have to scroll down a bit to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballacraine Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 OK then, John... So we have two different designs here......The substantial and hopefully sound genuine RAM offering: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballacraine Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 ...and the very dubious 'improved' guzzi copy. This is a failed one I picked up from a linked thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballacraine Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I hope Guzzi have a record of what type of clutch is fitted to which frame number! Nige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi323 Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 OK then, John... So we have two different designs here......The substantial and hopefully sound genuine RAM offering: 34435[/snapback] That's a picture of the aluminum flywheel for twin plate clutches. Right above that on the MG cycles page is this pic That's the flywheel for the aluminum single plate RAM clutch. I'll have to wait until I go home to check, but I'm pretty certain the flywheel in the above pic is identical to mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 nige, don't make it more difficult then it is. the picture from the jlywheel you have there, is the standard flywheel from guzzi for 2 plate clutch, touring , heavy model. When I had a quarter from the (guzzi mounted) flown out flyheel in my hand , I've compared that at TLM with a new in box ram clutch. It looked a niece of it but not it's twin. SO or it was an earlier type, or different make. But they were not the same. Only to be seen when comparison side by side. I've seen a picture of the ram where the RAM is printed on the center picture here: picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ballacraine Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 I'm doing my best to attempt to clarify. I'm sorry, I didn't intend to muddy the waters further... So that first picture I picked up on from the link John posted is not from a RAM single plate? I take it, it is the one on the top left of the most recent pic John posted? Well, that still is substantially different to the stress failed pic. Nige. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 So that first picture I picked up on from the link John posted is not from a RAM single plate? correct I take it, it is the one on the top left of the most recent pic John posted? Well, that still is substantially different to the stress failed pic. Yes correct, so if you look at this post: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...=2659&hl=clutch scura&st=20# you see how a ram should look. so maybe they are all ram, but they made different types during the years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 28, 2004 Share Posted September 28, 2004 A RAM clutch is what's pictured in post #99, by guzzi323. Anyhow, that's what I bought and installed on my Eldorado. It's got a stamp somewhere on it of a rider on a bike (RAM's logo, I guess). BTW, it comes pre- put together and centered, so you don't really get to see the inside bits. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Minnaert Posted September 28, 2004 Author Share Posted September 28, 2004 lot of ram clutches out there: http://www.ramclutches.com a daughter company? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guzzi323 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Well, that still is substantially different to the stress failed pic. 34444[/snapback] OK Ballacraine, I think I've figured out the discrepancy between your pic of the failed flywheel and the RAM pictures from MG cyce. The pic you have is the flywheel viewed from the crankshaft side where as all the other pics are showing the transmission side of it. When I flip mine over it looks very much like the damaged flywheel (Minus the nasty cracks and dye, for now at least) Cheers, johnk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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