velofish Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 When all this is said and done, and we understand what happened, I believe we will be proud of the US response to this disaster. None of us here actually knows what is happening there, taking this as an opportunity for US bashing is just pathetic. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormsedge Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 We have a growing number of Navy personnel from the New Orleans (NOLA) area reporting in at Naval Station Memphis...with their families, pets and the clothes on their back...but ready to go to work! I also met a lady Thursday up with her husband from NOLA area, same conditions, but he was Army and trying to report in to depart for Iraq. These folks have nothing except themselves and the thankfulness to the good Lord that they made it out safely...most I have met are upbeat, and resigned to starting over. They will be very thankful for any and all support anyone has to offer. Please take some quiet time today to offer a prayer for everyone's safety and well-being in connection with Katrina...thousands of folks none of us will ever have personal contact with. k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormsedge Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 I gotta tell ya, I didn't read all the previous posts until just now...there is actually a great deal of relief effort and rescue effort taking place, all under extremely precarious and dangerous conditions, largely by volunteers. The conditions are beyond the gravest that any of us can imagine...sort of Road Warrior and Waterwold all in one. It's not all NOLA...Katrina damaged or devastated alot of infrastructure almost all the way north to Jackson, MS and east almost to Mobile. Any of you armchair quarterbacks think this is easy, knock your house down, then try to rebuild it completely furnished with running water and electricityin five minutes---how'd that exercise go?----take that to an expotential number and you still won't have it. If you want to help, help...but don't belittle efforts going on - and don't second guess decisions made by our politicians when you were too lazy to care or be interested. For our allies overseas, how many times have we left you stranded? Not many that I can recall...more comfortable for you now that the Soviets don't appear to be looking over your shoulder everyday? Again, your prayers and assistance directed through the proper agencies will be appreciated and used. You may now take your best shot. k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouiji Veck Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 I've screamed @ the television for days....Where are the C-130s dropping pallets of supplies? Food, water, inflatables, medical supplies? Where's the amfibious landing crafts? The U.S. millitary take gun fire everyday to save Bagdad...but can't do the same to save N.O.? What the @#$#!!! Don't confuse Bush bashing with America bashing. Bush is not America. This country was great a long time before this NeoCon administration and will be long after. Every head of every federal dept. in this administration was a lobbyist a year or so ago.. Including FEMA..the EPA...Dept of the interior..etc. etc. etc. Look 'em up. Instead of engineers and scientist who devoted thier life to thier disiplines we have a bunch of people who devoted thier life to the science of FlimFlamming. Help had to wait until these people figured out how the cake was going to get cut. How long before we turn it all over to Haliburton with a no bid contract? Privitization will save us...Yea..right.. "Provide for the common good" What lefty liberal thought that up? These guys suck..America has always been a shining jewel of freedom and human rights...we don't need these NeoCons and thier Project for a New American Century to re-write the constitution. Read thier plan as set out by Rumsfeld,Cheyney, Rice, Wolfowitz and the New Vulcans (thats what they call themselves...vulcan...the God of War) http://www.newamericancentury.org/ Thier plan in thier words. Read between the lines here>> http://www.oldamericancentury.org/pnac.htm Awww...sorry..I needed to vent. I'll be good for now on...this is not the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MotoMessiah Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 When all this is said and done, and we understand what happened, I believe we will be proud of the US response to this disaster. None of us here actually knows what is happening there, taking this as an opportunity for US bashing is just pathetic. John 59330[/snapback] Proud that it took 4 days to get relief? Are you kidding me? This is a national disgrace. Food/water was dropped by air in Indonesia on the second day after the tsunami. Why not here? Don;t give me this patriotic BS. Our response was a joke. And an embarrassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormsedge Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Ouiji post: "I've screamed @ the television for days....Where are the C-130s dropping pallets of supplies? Food, water, inflatables, medical supplies? Where's the amfibious landing crafts? The U.S. millitary take gun fire everyday to save Bagdad...but can't do the same to save N.O.? What the @#$#!!! " I assume that since your television has not made any indication that it would okay military assistance in this case, that you have directed your indignation and helpful suggestions to our elected leaders who make the choices for us and give direction to the various federal agencies and the military. I gather from your post that you understand that FEMA owns this sort of internal catastrophe and State (foreign policy) owns the external...maybe why you saw ships, landing craft and C-130s responding (whether quicker in that case than this, I don't know) from forces operating near the region during the tsunami...forces that typically have some small amount of supplies for contingency/relief ops already deployed with them. Your military forces when stateside operate and train for largely exterior missions...not that they are incapable of internal missions, but the laws of our country require certain things to happen before they are mobilized internally---this to ensure the control by our civilian leaders and to protect against unnecessary military interference in local affairs. So, in an internal disaster such as this, we must wait for FEMA and our leaders to decide in each case on use of the military (while the state govenors have their national guard contigents)...we render immediate aid in life-threatening situations (this means as observed by eyeball), but largely we are confined to putting our own infrastructure (inside base perimeters) back in working order (if / where possible) until specifically tasked from above. Another point to ponder is the geography of the situation...the amphibious ships and associated gear you speak of are homeported in Norfolk, VA...even if they'd been loaded for this mission and okayed to "go" at the moment Katrina hit, they were a minimum of three days steaming time out (btw, had they been in the Gulf / Caribbean , they would have been forced to run from the storm or be lost)...the military in the local areas that Katrina hit were instructed to evacuate with their families (they have families too, and the bulk reside near our bases and their servicemember)...they now must wait until their chain of command okays their return (dependent on the ability of local infrastructures to support). Interesting to note that many of the survivors now being rescued actually had the means to leave the area when the evacuation order was given, but chose to remain behind...further stressing the rescue effort for those who legitimately were unable to leave without assistance. Gives you pause to reflect on freedom of choice (a good thing), free will (sometimes good, sometimes bad) and personal discipline (we all could stand to work on this). There are many lessons to be learned from this experience...the question will be which lessons we choose to act upon and are willing to pay for either through increased taxes or changes in the manner in which our national budget is currently disbursed/employed. I invite everyone putting money in the pot (taxpayers) to make your ideas / beliefs known to your elected officials...campaign contributions certainly influence our politicians, but I think (*opinion*) that a concerned and vocal voter base is even more influential (*based upon observed successes of special interest groups*). In between letters and emails to your elected officials, I think some contributions towards the assistance of the evacuees (if you cannot go yourself) and some added prayers will certainly bring results. Thanks. k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd haven Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Also, to toss in a few facts from nearby, but certainly not in the thickof the mess. News reports and the Gov't officials in La and NO on Monday and early Tuesday were expressing their relief that it wasn't too bad. They had dodged a bullet. Untill the levee breech. I'll be at the Convention Center in Houston tomorrow. Assisting in any way possible. 15,000 at the Dome, 8,000 more at Reliant Arena. 10,00-15,00 more at George R. Brown Convention Center. Add in dozens of outlying churches/community centers with 300-500 per site. 15,000-25,00 more each, headed to both San Antonio, and Dallas. Estimates project as many as 100,00 displaced persons in Houston. For the next 6-12 months. Most are staying with friends/family. Those in shelters are only a portion of the big picture. My donations, and available goods/supplies (I had a supply at home), have gone here: http://wildguzzi.com/discussion/viewtopic.php?t=4558 The impact in Houston has been stunning. But in comparison, only a drop in the bucket. Bush's fault, Clinton's fault. Who cares. We don't need this shit. People are dying, will continue to die, and untold numbers of lives are destroyed. Glad to see you can get a chuckle out of it. Uncle Sam gets it up the wazoo. Banner F'ing Day. I'll remember.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormsedge Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I'll be at the Convention Center in Houston tomorrow. Assisting in any way possible. The impact in Houston has been stunning. But in comparison, only a drop in the bucket. Bush's fault, Clinton's fault. Who cares. We don't need this shit. People are dying, will continue to die, and untold numbers of lives are destroyed. I'll remember.... 59364[/snapback] Thanks Todd. k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Leeds Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Interesting to note that many of the survivors now being rescued actually had the means to leave the area when the evacuation order was given, but chose to remain behind...further stressing the rescue effort for those who legitimately were unable to leave without assistance. Gives you pause to reflect on freedom of choice (a good thing), free will (sometimes good, sometimes bad) and personal discipline (we all could stand to work on this). I wonder if anyone would say 'They had it coming' in this context. I refer of course to a previous sympathy thread that was deleted. We all like to enjoy freedoms but one freedom that seems to little considered is 'freedom from', particularly for the poor people of the Southern states. Freedom from hunger, disease, crime and government lies in a democracy. Already people a jumping to conclusions but I hope that people will look at the evidence of this catastophe and prepare for the future accordingly. Would it be unduly cynical of me to observe that those left in NO were predominantly people from the sink areas where crime and unemployment is rampant. How many of the outlying (safe areas) want this problem transfered to their own doorstep. Pictures of dozens of parked and flooded school buses that could possibly have been used for evacuation do give additional cause for concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stormsedge Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I wonder if anyone would say 'They had it coming' in this context. I refer of course to a previous sympathy thread that was deleted. We all like to enjoy freedoms but one freedom that seems to little considered is 'freedom from', particularly for the poor people of the Southern states. Freedom from hunger, disease, crime and government lies in a democracy. Already people a jumping to conclusions but I hope that people will look at the evidence of this catastophe and prepare for the future accordingly. Would it be unduly cynical of me to observe that those left in NO were predominantly people from the sink areas where crime and unemployment is rampant. How many of the outlying (safe areas) want this problem transfered to their own doorstep. Pictures of dozens of parked and flooded school buses that could possibly have been used for evacuation do give additional cause for concern. 59378[/snapback] I'm weary of this thread John, so this is my last post in it and my last pass through it...the aforementioned was not a "they had it coming"...no one has anything like this "coming". Merely an observation that all that could - did not get out and it increases the rescue effort for those who were really stuck with no means. I deal in realities in my line of work and have been involved as we try to get our arms around our part (plus attempting to locate our people), while developing lessons learned...and there are hundreds of lessons. I, like you, hope that we learn and grow from this...I have been in 45 of our 50 and as many foreign countries...including yours. There are poor everywhere and I would love to help them all, as would you and millions of others...the question is, when will we and to what end? Please don't be too quick to cast the Katrina evacuation as a racist undertaking...it serves no purpose except to further ingrain hate and prejudice, making it more difficult to trust and pull together during this time. Again, your prayers and donations (to appropriate agencies) will be most appreciated by those in need. Thanks, John. Out here. k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txrider Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I'm weary of this thread John, so this is my last post in it and my last pass through it...the aforementioned was not a "they had it coming"...no one has anything like this "coming". Merely an observation that all that could - did not get out and it increases the rescue effort for those who were really stuck with no means. I deal in realities in my line of work and have been involved as we try to get our arms around our part (plus attempting to locate our people), while developing lessons learned...and there are hundreds of lessons. I, like you, hope that we learn and grow from this...I have been in 45 of our 50 and as many foreign countries...including yours. There are poor everywhere and I would love to help them all, as would you and millions of others...the question is, when will we and to what end? Please don't be too quick to cast the Katrina evacuation as a racist undertaking...it serves no purpose except to further ingrain hate and prejudice, making it more difficult to trust and pull together during this time. Again, your prayers and donations (to appropriate agencies) will be most appreciated by those in need. Thanks, John. Out here. k 59382[/snapback] Well thought out and expressed, stormsedge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 I'll be at the Convention Center in Houston tomorrow. Assisting in any way possible. 59364[/snapback] Thanks Todd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Leeds Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 k I appreciate many of your sentiments and can understand your weariness of a blame culture. Many of us benefit from savings taken from needy causes yet hipocritically blame governments when the shit hits the fan. Probably I should let it lie, but make no mistake, having poor is only about a lack of political will. There are marked desparities around the world in the numbers of poor in individual countries and it is not dependent on GDP. Poor crime infested areas are not inevitable. It is not about charity, it is about the certainty that for our rich countries poverty is just unacceptable. kind regards John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
v50man Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 Call me Mr. Insensitivity, but... I didn't see much but a lot of whiney, obese, WIC-addicted human detritus in New Orleans. No potential Rhodes Scholars. No real contribution to humanity. Choose to live below sea level for long enough -- skirt disaster enough times -- and this is what you get. Poverty in America is a function of (lack of) ambition and (sometimes lack of) luck. And a whole bunch of other things -- but I'm not going to sit back and have the "system" impugned while sloth is tolerated -- even encouraged. Hard core -- yes. Come to the American South -- as I did -- take a look around -- clear your head -- and see if you don't see what I see. Thanks, FDR, LBJ, et al. It is now quite ugly. Probably gonna get a whole lot uglier... V50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangeokie Posted September 4, 2005 Share Posted September 4, 2005 re: "they" didn't have the means to get out before the storm . . . If there had been a "free Fiddy Cent" concert in Houston I'll bet they could have found a way to get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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