So, I'm standing at a bar in Miami...

[quazi-moto]

That story kinda reminds me of the time I went to a nightclub in NYC with my friend (an off duty state trooper from NJ) and the guy at the door asked us if we were carrying any weapons. My buddy's like "Yeah, I've got a gun" and within seconds theres all these 6'5" gorillas surrounding us. Once he explained that he was an off duty trooper and is required to carry a weapon everything was cool, but those first few moments were a little tense. This was pre-9/11, but with regard to the heightened security measures that are commonplace now it really doesn't bother me all that much. Then again I'm a f---in' neo-con at heart!

[Guest drknow]

Uh oh, rant mode engaged...

 

This is not a neoconservative/liberal thing. Rather, it's the contrast between sheep and wolves. I travelled to New York just a few weeks after 9/11 and there were National Guardsmen in the airports carrying M16's and patrolling. The security was agonizing due to the heightened scrutiny and it took forever to get anywhere. My response, then and now, is shock that Americans will accept this. I don't want to live in militarized zone. If there are people who are actively plotting to kill us, and sometimes succeeding, then we should go to where they are, hunt them down, and kill them first.

 

Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty.

--Benjamin Franklin

 

Some people feel safer with all this "no liquid in bottles and you can't have a pocket knife, in fact, gimme that corkscrew" bullshit. They are the sheep. Freedom is messy and not always the safest way to be. It's like riding. It's much safer to never leave the house, however we all manage but accept the risk because it makes this life worth living. In this case we are the wolves. We are not passive, we proactively live life and create memories. Those that live in a padded cell may outlast us, but never outlive us.

 

I pay lots of taxes to maintain the largest military in the world. More still goes to Homeland security, and the Border Patrol. I want these agencies to make it harder for bad people to enter this county. I want them to find known terrorists and kill them. I want security at the airports to be smart and diligent, but sensible. If my fucking toothpaste is a threat to national security, our approach to this whole mess is ridiculous.

 

Pant, pant.

 

Rant off,

 

dk

[ferguzzi]

No,

I have no problem with the new security measures, after all it's my industry that has been affected most, and I'm probably in one of the most "checked" occupations on th planet. Understandably I suppose, given the amount of damage I could wreak from the flight deck.

What I didn't understand was the amount of rules with regard to everyday life, far and away from any perceived security threat.

It just seemed there was a rule for everything, and damned if there wasn't someone there to insist on it everytime, and god forbid you might have a difficulty with this.

Because Big Brother would be watching. Even if it might only be a spotty 17 year old in a parking lot, or whatever.

Anyway, speaking of lack of freedom, I'm off to Shanghai.

Great place.

[DeBenGuzzi]

Anyway, speaking of lack of freedom, I'm off to Shanghai.

Great place.

I hear you can walk the street with your money taped to your back and make it through the seediest parts of town right now, they are getting the olympics and have instituted a "crimes against forigners means death" contingincy plan to clean up their act.

I guess the rules we got here aint so bad eh? I mean AIYEEE rrrrr.

[Ouiji Veck]

Well.......right off...you were in a bar in Miami. By the reaction you got I'd think it was a pretty

rough place..maybe upscale but rough. Despite the whole Natl. security thing I think this was

a very seperate incident. This country is full of tough guys just looking for a reason to kick some ass to brag

about it latter. A lot of these types end up with uniforms and guns. Fortunately most can't pass the IQ test to get into any decent security position...ie State Police etc. The south and south west is the worst part of the country for this. They were still lynching black men for looking at a white woman down there when I was in grade school. This is where our existing foriegn policy comes from. Osama/Sadam? Who cares, it was one

of those Arab fellas...string 'em up ...And those fellas on the east and west coast is a bunch of pussies 'cause they got all them univesities makin' 'em stupid.

[quazi-moto]

Maybe I'm a sheep in wolf's clothing that doesn't deserve either liberty or security, or even pu$$y for that matter. Who knows? I've always felt that along with freedom comes responsiblity. It doesn't mean that one is free to punch someone in the nose because maybe they wear their hat a little sideways, but if someone is deliberately planning/attempting to hurt Americans then I don't want them here. Its pretty cut & dry. I don't mind paying taxes for guns & bombs either. Its not much of a sacrifice for being able to live in one of the most diverse countries on the planet. I don't think that diplomacy is an effective negotiating tool when you're dealing with terrorists. Overwhelming violence is!

[Guest drknow]

Maybe I'm a sheep in wolf's clothing that doesn't deserve either liberty or security, or even pu$$y for that matter. Who knows? I've always felt that along with freedom comes responsiblity. It doesn't mean that one is free to punch someone in the nose because maybe they wear their hat a little sideways, but if someone is deliberately planning/attempting to hurt Americans then I don't want them here. Its pretty cut & dry. I don't mind paying taxes for guns & bombs either. Its not much of a sacrifice for being able to live in one of the most diverse countries on the planet. I don't think that diplomacy is an effective negotiating tool when you're dealing with terrorists. Overwhelming violence is!

 

Sound like we agree! I don't see any sheep here...

 

dk

[mike wilson]

Its not much of a sacrifice for being able to live in one of the most diverse countries on the planet. I don't think that diplomacy is an effective negotiating tool when you're dealing with terrorists. Overwhelming violence is!

 

It might have been diverse 300 years ago but it's rapidly becoming as monolithic as North Korea.

 

There is no such thing as overwhelming violence in a guerilla war. Which is what we are in although most of our representatives have yet to realise it. We _are_ going to lose the "war on terror" using the tactics deployed at present. The only people "shocked and awed" are the innocent civilians of all types who are in the middle of it.

[g.forrest]

It might have been diverse 300 years ago but it's rapidly becoming as monolithic as North Korea.

 

There is no such thing as overwhelming violence in a guerilla war. Which is what we are in although most of our representatives have yet to realise it. We _are_ going to lose the "war on terror" using the tactics deployed at present. The only people "shocked and awed" are the innocent civilians of all types who are in the middle of it.

[Turpin Crock]

Yeah but did you get the twenty back????

 

[docc]

If "All people in America are like those in Miami or NYC," then everyone in Europe is like you will find in Paris or Copenhagen.

 

It just ain't so.

 

Diversity yet persists. And kindness and gentleness are yet everywhere.

 

Here is hoping that the sun shines upon the road before you and the door opens ahead before the air percusses behind.

 

 

Per Jimmy Buffet, "I got de big suspicion 'bout ammunition - I never forget to duck!"

[antonio carroccio]

If "All people in America are like those in Miami or NYC," then everyone in Europe is like you will find in Paris or Copenhagen.It just ain't so.

Are you sure about that???

How come in Japan all these Japanese people look the same? In China idem ditto!

[Turpin Crock]

I lived in the states for 14 years and found people generally to be friendly and courteous. But if you went to a place with large surley bouncers at the door a confrontation with the staff was always likely to end in tears.

 

They do tend to escalate things in a situation like that one in the bar a bit faster in the US than they would here. They have the power in their Bar/Club and if you are suddenly percieved as a problem you are not dealt with nicely.

 

As regards the general fastidiousness in society there. Yes there seemed to be rules for everything and they were enforced, but we in recent years especially in Ireland have started to go a bit in that direction eg. the smoking ban -100% compliance here when it was introduced a few years back. I lived in California when it came in there in 1998 and it was not observed at all in loads of places

[badmotogoozer]

 

There is no such thing as overwhelming violence in a guerilla war. Which is what we are in although most of our representatives have yet to realise it. We _are_ going to lose the "war on terror" using the tactics deployed at present. The only people "shocked and awed" are the innocent civilians of all types who are in the middle of it.

 

Yes, the war on terror is doomed. Just as the war on drugs is doomed. They are battles that cannot be won. How do you fight an enemy on a world stage, one that does not wear a uniform, is religiously (or monetarily in the case of the drug war) driven (if god is on our side then who can be against us) and is indiscernable from civilian population. Think "Vietnam" on a world scale, except your enemy is in the cities and not wearing black pyjamas.

 

It is one thing to outnumber and out arm your opponent, but when the world is the stage and the enemy does not present itself to battle, there is little hope that "shock and awe" will have any effect other than to put them in deeper hiding.

 

What is the answer? I don't know, but the current methods are doing little other than to terrorize innocents abroad so that the citizens at home can feel safer. Are they any safer? All it takes is the desire to trade one's own life to accomplish acts of terrorism. That and a good plan... There are holes in any security system. All one needs do is to look for them.

 

Shock and awe, sound and fury, signifying nothing. Players on a stage.

 

Rj

[quazi-moto]

All points well taken. The U.S. did have similar difficulties during the Vietnam war era. It was assumed that our superior firepower would easily topple the N.V.A. & Vietcong, but the enemy would never really stand up and fight. It was mostly ambushes and hit & run attacks. Our fighters weren't used to urban/guerrilla style warfare. I can only surmise that the reason terrorist/rogue regimes never manage to gain a foothold anywhere is because they don't know $hit about what it takes to run a country. If one looks beyond their vile & sleazy tactics then one will quickly realize that they're nothing but $m@ll b@lled p@thetic c@ndy @$$e$.