luhbo
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Posts posted by luhbo
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Paul lately posted this:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lc1.php
This looked very interesting for me. Probably I'll buy one also.
Hubert
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I found something that could help. Eventually more under http://www.evoluzione.net/
It's some formulas and a rough instruction how do mod the existing regulator with some parts once sold by evoluzione cyclesports.
Hubert
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They have E85 here and its kind of a crock, Most vehicles run like crap on it unless properly set-up for it AND even when they are they don't get as good of performance. At least on the larger engines. A friend of mine pulled a boat and the milage was so bad he could have just used normal gas for the same money.
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You have to increase the CR remarkably to get usable results. The inherent energy of ethanol is much lower than that of petrol, that's the main issue.
Anyway, I like this idea, probably most of all I've read of in these forums.
Hubert
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They're not adjustable, albeit once in USA was sold an adjustable unit.
They are not cheap, adjustable or not!
My15M can't help you if the pressure is too low.
If you already have a PC, give it a try, why not. I don't think it can solve the pressure problem, but who knows.
Hubert
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Do you think I can get enough throughput from the injectors for 30+% more fuel?
Is it possible to get that kind of adjustment using my PCIII?
Otherwise, can I manipulate the fuel pump/pressure adjuster to raise the fuel pressure?
Is the fuel pump capable of handling the additional load?
You'll have to raise the pressure, unless you wont go beyond 6500 RPM. At least if alcohol and gas have the same viscosity. That's no question of PCIII or not, the only problem is to inject this lot of fuel during 2 cycles at higher RPMs.
Raising the pressure could make idle and low rev response seriously trickier to deal with IMHO
Switching to alcohol without raising remarkably the CR is what I'd call a bodge (as I have recently learned the meaning of this word). This will be not so easy.
And also the spark advance could be remarkable different, as alcohol doesn't ping as easy as petrol.
I'm looking also for a practical solution to raise the pressure, but all I've seen so far was quite expensive.
It looks as it could become a very interesting project. So far only race engines were driven by alcohol, so why not start it on a Guzzi.
Hubert
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A lot will not recognise it even when you have found it. "I always thought it was a green cup, no, this blue is rubbish". Would you go back restart searching to find a green one? Don't get trapped in an endless loop.
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So here I sit in the middle arguing with everyone, wondering if I should buy a WBO2 datalogger, a colortune, do a tuning link run everytime I modify my bike, trust a local dyno-tuner, or ride 500 miles for an appointment with MotoLab, whom I trust and agree would give the best result, but at a price I am not sure is worth it.
I am kind of inclined to get the datalogger....about $600 after bungs, etc.
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You better just have fun with your Guzzi. Listen to her! Generations of drivers have optimised their bikes with only the feedback their back and probably the plugs have given them and probably all of them had fun with this procedure.
As today there are no jets, needles and things left to play around with, people have to buy different things to find their joy. The best for me is what pleases me most. I know at least five persons personaly that would be very unhappy with the things how I have them arranged. That's only natural. One doesn't speak english, one get's nervous as soon as his engine revs over 7000, one want's his bike original and untouched, one drives Harley and one always the newest Japer. So what system or setup is better than the other? All of us are pleased with our bikes and all their components, and when we leave together we come home together. There's a life besides Guzzi and it's EFI
Hubert
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That's introducing a propagation delay equivalent to one revolution of the crankshaft! Perhaps the method might be made to work at steady speed, but under rapid acceleration it would completely screw the ignition timing. A bit like having an elastic timing belt.
When accelerating the ignition would be retarded because the crank would come round faster than the module expected from its last intelligence information and on deceleration it would ping and knock like f*ck because of the opposite problem. After all, the PC would be getting a derivative of crank position only once per rev from the ECU spark signals.
The only way to make it work would be to deliberately remap the ecu advanced so that the PC module could then retard it back to where it should be by delaying the pulse edges. If you are going to remap the ecu anyway, you might as well do it properly and bin the PC (mixture and ignition).
The PC is a bodge pure and simple.
Well, developing a spark timing enhancement seems to be a pain in a##e, maybe that's one reason.
What's a bodge? A cheating device? If so, then I have heard that probably once it was one, but the ECU OEM's shall have done something against cheaters so the concept was changed. I think it was posted somewhere on the earlier pages of the ECU-thread.
If they have done something against cheaters, maybe it's just the use of eeproms. Don't get me wrong, shall read make cheating unnecessary!
Hubert
Ah, sorry, forgot something: if anyone's going to bin his WM15-PC, I could need one! Indeed the connectors and plugs can be used to build up new ECUs
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I just hate the whole power commander concept. As I understand it, and feel free to put me right if I am mistaken, all the PC contains is a delay on timer and a delay off timer. To lean the mixture, the PC delays the pulse from the ECU getting to the injector (delay on). To richen the mixture it delays the off edge from the ecu getting to the injector (delay off).This is all very well, but for the raw ECU pulses, the "on" transitions are all aligned, i.e. if you drew the pulses on each line of a piece of paper, the start of the pulses would all be aligned with the left margin. Put a PC in there and the pulse timings are moved about by the trim delays.
Also, what about the propagation delay of the PC, which can only react to events from the ECU. It can't be that insignificant.
Furthermore, you are putting in another point of failure.
I would dearly love to know how the PC ignition module is supposed to work. Given that it only REACTS to the ECU signal, it only has the prospect of retarding the ignition by delaying the pulse. Ignition is an edge triggered timing phenomenon so if the pulse is late from the ECU, how the F**K can the PC module correct it if it needs advancing??? Unless those good people at Dynojet fit your PC ignition module with a flux capacitor, enabling the pulse to travel back in time to before the moment the ECU issued it.
Just remember that the defenders of the PC III are usually those guys who sell them and pay their mortgages by them. Oh, and people who bought them with the sweat of their brow. Psychologists call that the "post purchase response" people say the shit's good because they don't want to admit they were sold a gimmick.
I once thought the same way, but it can be done in a much easier way also. What if they one cycle watch what the ecu does and then one cycle later perform their own program? They let the ecu run, spy it, assign the output to nil and instead send their own signals. It works quite well I think.
What I don't like is its obvious oldfashioned concept. It lacks completely any bit of 'hack'. Like some engineers act: if the fender breaks, make it heavier! That's not everybody's style.
There is only one way of "tuning" that is even more funny: some of our greatest german heros/experts like e.g. Dynotech, they first open the sealed housing, unsolder the eeprom, install a cheap socket, put in another eeprom and finally try to get the housing tight again. Believe it or not!
Hubert
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Tuneboy and TuneEdit is a well approved and higly recommended software for Aprilia, Triumph and also Benelli ecus. You find all the features of it in detail on http://www.Tuneboy.com.au
Tuneboy is now available also for weber/marelli ecus, especially the WM15, albeit still in a beta version.
As described there you can read and use PCIII maps with TuneEdit. Additionally you can edit the spark advance and all the other maps the WM hosts.
TuneEdit is pure software, no additional hardware, no additional plugs or connectors, no lost space, usability of all official Guzzi/Weber updates.
Cannot say wether this or this is better or not. Probably a PC is a product that once the world was waiting for, talking about times when changes to the mapping could only be done via changing an eprom. Only very few people could afford to buy and use a prommer and the right software for it.
But times have changed, technology develops. Nowadays ECUs are reflashable, it means you can upload the map into your computer, analyze and change it, and then you download it again into the ECU.
These are the features that at least I was looking for.
Hubert
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There are V11 with O2 sensor, so there should be a channel for this.
I know that the WM15 delivers this data, and I hope that these can be read and stored sometimes with Tuneboy, but who knows.
Hubert
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Of course it is! Order it directly at www.Tuneboy.com.au or if you prefer a european source at www.tuneboy.uk. These countries run their own mail companies, the Brits even under the crown still
It's a great product, but if you want something really exciting and also priceworthy then consider the My15M solution in kit form, available at Cliff Jefferies. Link
Hubert
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Ernst,
are you sure that your EFI is set up exactly as the book says? I ask this because my 2000/Limone never was really pinging!
It makes some single pings when very hot and only at the moment I open the throttle at idle, never when it runs at constant speed, regardless what load. I do not use better fuel than 98 ROZ.
Hubert
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The screen says "Beta", that's right, but this goes only for the WM15/WM16 ecus. For Aprilia and Triumph it's a well proofen system since quite some time.
Hubert
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This morning the converted map was already in my inbox. I now have at least two maps at hand that I can compare. TuneEdit allows to export the maps in Excel format, so it's no problem to compare different maps this way.
Pix as soon as they're ready.
Hubert
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You have a window of 19.5 mV. Staying inside it the Ecu will see nothing. But what does it mean? I make an offset of 19.4 mV, the ecu is not triggered, but then when I kick the rear tire to check the pressure I provoke a 0.1 mv glitch and the ecu thinks the flaps have moved! Strange, this Luigi stuff. I mean, 19.5 mV...
Hubert
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Some days ago I posted some words about TuneBoy in the ECU thread, I think as an answer to one of Dave's posts.
I thought it would make more sense now to start a new thread instead of overblow this ECU longrunner.
I had ordered a cable and it has arrived at my house exactly after 10 days, having passed one or two ponds and at last the german customs. Quality is good, no lowtech clips and things. Price should be known here or look at TuneBoy . There is actually no info about the Guzzi version there, but you will get it from Wayne McDonald.
The software is plug and play. I installed it on a Win98 laptop, connected the cable to battery and Titanium-ECU, did what the proggy told me and all went like it should. So no problems to report so far.
Development is still ongoing, so actually I had to send the ecu dump to Tuneboy to become converted in a usable map. I will report how it looks when I have it back. In the meantime I can play around with a genuine V11 MY 200X map. So far it's just fun!
Hubert
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Thx for the CR hint.
Have you already made any changes to the map or are the three graphs taken under the same conditions?
Hubert
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The frame should be low enough, just remove the camel tank and the big ar#e.
The green was always green, but in pre-digicam-times the most dia or negative films never got this color right. In fact even today a standard picture shows a yellow bike.
Hubert
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I meant 'unburnt' and not 'only partially burnt'. Just remember the 'good ol' carbo days'. At least my engines, 750S LM1 and LM3, all more or less died when I completely opened the throttle at 3000. EFI works better here, but the problems with WOT and low revs are probably still the same or with bigger inlet ducts even bigger.
What does (quote) "and a CR slightly raised to 9.6" mean?
Hubert
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Presumably, if you remap the 15M that would compensate for the HD TPS being slightly different although both fuel and ignition would need to be remapped.
I suppose also a PCIII would allow the same, excepting ignition. Not that I like the PCIII, I don't and would never consider one.
Probably the HD TPS also goes from 0 to 5V, linear. You can easily check it with a Volt-meter.
When the basic setting has to be different, by somewhat mechanical reason, you should be able to shift the complete map a bit. You just have to have access to the right software. No remapping.
Then, if you have such software, why wouldn't you do a complete job with it and solve all the mapping problems you know about?
Times have changed, the modern Guzzis and Ducs have modern ecus, they are reflashable, eprom burning and other auxiliary stuff was yesterday!
Hubert
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I'm really sorry about having said something wrong. I never thought that unprofessional is such a strong word, especially for a nonprofessional that I supposed you are. If this is also wrong, sorry again.
Indeed you are right, you didn't write "don't bother about basic TPS setting", you wrote "...and ignore the zero-degree setting...". So if there is a special PC-zero-degree-setting-procedure then of course I understood these words wrong, what I appologize. You know, that's not my language
Please answer me one last question: why does the PC not want to use the 150mV setting? What speaks against it? (ok, two questions
)Greetz, Hubert
running on Ethanol (E85)
in Technical Topics
Posted
Only the poorest think money makes the world go 'round
Hubert