Kiwi_Roy

Yes, even smaller, most LEDs are rated 20 mA or less. I used the smallest wire I could find, probably 24 or 28 gauge otherwise it would be too stiff. Any resistor that gives you 5 - 10 mA will be bright enough. Yes, some pretty colours might be nice. I ran a wire daisy chain from each of the negative leads to bolt on the chassis, you could run back to the negative terminal on each coil but they are not always on the same side. Some small heat shrink might come in handy. I marked each point on my Carl Allison drawing, I will get it off the bike later and add to mine. The starter relay LED is on NO contact, the rest are on when the bike is running, It might be an idea to make a small metal template so when you drill the bases they all end up in the exact same spot, some of mine wandered off because I drilled right down thru a cross shaped section of plastic. I will post a picture if I can find my camera cable. Cheers Roy

I'm of the opinion that anything greasy aids contacts, it coats the surface so air (oxidation) and water (corrosion) don't take place. I learned as an apprentice electrician 45 years ago that petroleum jelly aka vaseline works wonders on battery terminals. We also used it liberally on the large drum controllers of electric cranes, more for lubrication in that case. I'm sure there are lots of better greases than plain old vaseline but it's available everywhere. God's gift to Electrical Contacts I call it. I'm starting to rave like an now What were we talking about again? Cheers Roy

(Edited 06 August 2010 - 05:36 AM): If you are having trouble with your relays. Some of the problems could be due to a faulty contact in the base. The attached drawing shows how to remove the connectors from the base so they can be inspected or tightened by pinching with a pair of pliers. If you need to replace them the brass connectors are standard items that can be purchased at any good automotive supply store. I highly recommend dipping your relay pins in vaseline, this will help prevent corrosion and also makes it easier to get the relays in and out. The other drawing shows how you can add LEDs to the relay bases as a troubleshooting aid, I did this with mine and find it very useful. The LEDs are wired to contact 87 so that they indicate when the relay contacts are closed, not just when the coil is energized. Should you decide to go this route, there's a cross piece in the plastic that will make the drill wander, if you make a metal template for drilling the 1/8 hole they will all end up in the same place, not like mine. Here's a picture of the end result http://www.v11lemans...attach_id=10124 Hope this is of interest Roy (edit): updated drawings: See Post # 15 of this thread below:

Sorry, I wasn't being critical, I just missunderstood what you mean. I fully agree it's very hard to do a load test on the bench. Roy

If you look at the diagram Raz posted you will se the 0.3 Ohms is due to the red coil and the armature in series, The main starter current doesn't go through the Omron relay (it would fry instantly) The red coil will draw about 34 amps for the split second it takes the solenoid to engage the gear and close the main contacts. The blue coil is much weaker ~6 amps but strong enough to hold the solenoid in place while your finger is on start so the initial load on the starter relay will be ~ 40 quickly dropping to 6 The starter according to owners manual is 1.2 kW "or 100 Amps at 12V" I'm not sure why you say test the motor no load. Most wouldn't have a meter with a scale that high anyway. What you can do is measure the voltage drop (mV) along the starter cable and try to figure the current out from cable resistance chart. Yes, the CEMF is due to the motor acting as a generator, the faster it spins the larger the CEMF so the current drops. Current = (EMF - CEMF) / Resistance Roy me, for sure

That's the diagram I was looking for. I suspected it was like that. When the start relay closes it energises the low resistance Red coil in series with the motor 34 amps if I'm not misstaken and the blue coil in parallel 6 Amps. The field pulls the plunger in engaging the gear in the flywheel and making the large contacts which effectivly bring the other end of the red coil to +12V. The current drops to 6 Amps (blue coil), enough to hold the solenoid in place. Meanwhile up to 100 Amps flows through the large contacts to the motor. The reason motor current drops with speed, the motor is also a generator, the faster it spins the more voltage it generates but in the opposite direction (counter EMF) I'm not sure our motors have a series field like shown, I read it was permanent magnets. You can replace the connectors in the sockets quite easily, they are available in any good auto parts store. Standard spade connectors with a barb on the back. I will post how. Roy

Mine was quite clean actualy, but cleaning sure made the world of diference. I left mine on the bike because I was too lazy to remove the tank

I was surprised how easily the lock assembly came off, I expected some sort of fancy security bolt but no, just regular Allen bolts. (( I just looked in the parts manual Section H1 page 40 item 22 is listed as "Special Screw", I guess the PO must have changed them out)) The contact block (on mine) is held on with 2 philips head screws. You should be able to leave the lock in situ, the block only fits back one way so no worries there but suggest before you take the contact plate out of it's housing mark it's position, I didn't and it took me a while to figure it out (poor eyesight and bad lighting) I knew I should have taken pictures but all three hands were busy unclipping the parts. Check the resistance first, it might be OK I wouldn't spray it with contact cleaner, might dissolve the plastic. Roy

You didn't adjust the little cam roller that acts s a stop for the brake pedal recently did you? Just asking Roy

I stand corrected, it's sort of like the Alternator Generator argument for AC Potentiometer is more meanigfull for my project, I'm changing the Potential BTW, I tried it out over the weekend but my bike is running so rich that even subtracting 250 mV didn't seem to effect it. Yes, I did the closed throttle 150 mV adjustment (460 mV at idle 4800 odd at WOT). I don't think I have the little screw on my ECU. Regards Roy

[quote name='raz' date='21 April 2010 - 08:17 AM' I also measured 0.3 ohms fwiw. Thanks Raz, The article talks about a contact in the solenoid, I suspect there may be a coil in series with the armature to pull it in that gets shorted by the main contact and anothet to ground to hold the solenoid in place, I'm curious now so I will get to the bottom of it. BTW as an apprentice one of our main tasks in the winter was refurbishing starters and generators for workmates cars, mainly old British variety. This is the first one I have seen with a planitary gear and permanent magnets, but motorbikes were all kick start back then.

Yes, good point, I mentioned that in my attachment, without the extra load the LED is on all the time. I just used one of the old lamps since I didn't have a suitable resistor handy, besides the lamp has another advantage, low resistance when cold giving a higher voltage to the thermistor thus making it more sensitive. Mine works great, starts by intermittent operation on braking then full on well before running out, nice and bright too. Roy

I think the holder will pop out the back you just have to reef on it Roy

Hi, When I measure the starter coil to ground I get a very low reading ~ 0.3 Ohms, yikes, that's 40 Amps, but it draws ~ 6 Amps when energized. I suspect there is a special wiring arrangement inside the starter, dual coil or contact, If anyone has the internal drawing i would appreciate it so I can add to an upcoming troubleshooting drawing. It's riding season, I don't feel like pulling mine off just to see how it's arranged. Thanks Roy

I thought I would share this. In the course of doing my little Test Point Layout drawing I probed the points with my multimeter. I tested for Ohms with all relays and fuses removed and battery + wires disconnected. I found that measuring from the near side of F6 to TP-b on relay 3 checks both contacts of the ignition switch at the same time. The readings I got (turning Off/On) were about 2 Ohms +/- 0.5 Ohms with the odd reading around 60. I made a mental note that the switch would need some attention. Sure enough, over the weekend after stopping one time the bike ran like a hairy goat so I pulled over and operated the switch a few times and it was fine after that. Last night I pulled the switch off (remove headlight and two large Allen screws) The back comes off the switch by pressing firmly on two of the little tabs until you can get a small screwdriver under. (It helps here if you were born with three arms or perhaps it unplugs from the harness so you can mount it in a vice.), Then the contact block comes out by releasing another clip. I didn't see anything obvious but wiped all the old grease off and gave the contacts a very light touch up with fine sandpaper. Next I applied some vaseline (petroleum jelly) and re assembled. Lo and behold now when I test every time I operate the switch I get a reading of 0.7 Ohms (± 0.1) so I don't expect I will have any more trouble there for a while. If you decide to test your own switch, first short your meter leads together to measure the lead resistance, the test reading should be 5 Ohms think about servicing the switch. As I mentioned it's quite tricky getting the switch apart but well worth the effort. A word about Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline I learned as an apprentice, 45+ years ago, this stuff is gawd's gift to electrical contacts. I use it everywhere from battery terminals to dipping my wires in it before crimping into a lug. It lubricates sliding contacts and prevents air and water from attacking copper surfaces. You may have your own fancy tub of electrical contact grease but good old petroleum jelly is all I need. It even has a few non related uses if you know what I mean

My bike has a set of Mistral mufflers added by PO, they sound great, They look similar to those only carbon fiber. My 2c worth.

Yes they are very hard to pull out that way because the lamp supports the rubber boot. I pulled mine from the front. If you take the cover of the light slide a piece of tubing e.g. heat shrink over the lamp you can grip it with needle nosed pliers. I replaced all my lamps with LEDs . The lamp-holders leave a lot to be desired, some lamps have a double sided contact that causes a short circuit when they are inserted (see attached) because of this I soldered them in place. Alternately you could order new lamp bases and glue them in place. They look brighter than the original, I am very pleased with them. Because LEDs have a very narrow light wavelength you must chose a lamp the same colour as the lens. Guzzi Lamps.pdf Roy

It's possible to replace the connectors in the relay bases, they are a standard item in a good automotive parts provider. There are two different sizes in the base. I get the connectors out by releasing them from the top with a pop rivet nail filed to a chisel shape. I suspect relay 5 is subject to very high short term currents (average will be much lower) as the injectors fire, any resistance at all will prevent them firing properly. As well as the injectors, 2 coils and pump. If it happens again try placing a jumper from one of the other fuses right across to a handy point in the injector, coil, pump wire thus shorting across relay 5 to see if that cures it. Regards Roy

Updated Drawings Attached, I also added note 12 in response to Raz with the timing diagram flat lined on sensor fail. This makes perfect sense, the ECU needs to know where to fire the injectors and spark A word of explanation on timing diagram on the layout R5's. When I turn the key on R5 gives a very short blip then a short delay then picks up again to prime the pump for 1 or 2 seconds. If your bike dies with not even trying to start check on R5, swap it with one of the other relays like the starter relay. Actually the starter relay socket is a good spot to test a relay because every part of it is tested N/O to run the starter and NC to run the headlight. Many thanks to all who contributed to the project,keep those cards and letters coming. Remember I am new to Guzzi, many of you have a lifetime of experience to share You should now have Rev C of the schematic and the layout with April 19th at the bottom right. Regards Roy (attachments removed, see latest at top of thread)

Yes, I have a 1 amp charger after leaving it on overnight the battery is 13.5 (charger removed back in the bike) but after running all day I killed the engine to turn off the headlight straight away and measured 12.5 so I suspect the regulator is set internally at 12.5. Perhaps it's putting out the correct ~ 15 v and I am loosing some in the wiring. Does anyone have a schematic of the regulator internals? Thanks Roy

Heres the latest layout. If anyone has any comments or tips to add please PM me. Raz, is the timing diagram "Crankshaft Sensor fail" shown correctly or does relay 5 not pick up at all after the initial brief run when the key is turned on? I guess I should disconnect the sensor and try it, perhaps next week. I drew the diagram after observing the LEDs i added on each relay. Thanks (attachment removed, see latest at top of thread May 18 2010) Roy

My V11 has similar symptoms, just misses a beat now and then at idle or under moderate steady power, it misses about 1 in 1000. It seems to me like the ignition is missing or perhaps the injectors not opening. I have only just set the TPS and balanced the throttles. The Italian Sneeze is an apt description. Roy

Raz, Easy mistake to make, I missed it also, even the drawing in the manual shows it open, not closed as it should. In hind-site I think using the switch is more problem than it's worth. I will go with your original, 2 relays, 2 diodes, it's simple and elegant, I wonder if the kit-set mentioned has the diode backup feature. I bought all the parts, ran a New # 12 from a fuse at the battery and another #12 ground back from headlight to frame under the tank. I was fixated on having the headlight off because I ran my new battery flat while testing after about 15 minutes, now after riding all day I find my battery is only charged to 12.5 Volts, the warning light comes on below about 1500 rpm. I obviously have a charging problem which I need to fix, once that's sorted the headlight on will be dead issue. All the connections are tight, perhaps it's the regulator, are you aware of any issues with those? NB, the battery charges to normal 13.5 on a trickle charger Roy

Raz, As a public service, please post your latest relay wiring diagram here on this thread along with an explanation. I'm sure it will get used by many, myself included. I picked up the wire and parts last night. Don't need a relay base just 2 different sizes of spade connectors. What did you do to keep the diodes from overheating (actually the won't as long as the relays and new supply are working) I will re-use some of the relays I replaced a while back, even if one fails it will be backed up by the diode with a noticable loss in performance i.e. back to standard glimmer. Regards Roy

Wow, that's just what I want, please tell me more, where can I get a "Ruckus Zbar". I have been looking at chrome bars but they would look out of place on the V11. Did you re-enforce the bar where it clamps, perhaps a solid rod or thick walled pipe. Would it be possible to route the wiring thru the bars? Good Idea on your part. Roy