Kiwi_Roy

You didn't adjust the little cam roller that acts s a stop for the brake pedal recently did you? Just asking Roy

I stand corrected, it's sort of like the Alternator Generator argument for AC Potentiometer is more meanigfull for my project, I'm changing the Potential BTW, I tried it out over the weekend but my bike is running so rich that even subtracting 250 mV didn't seem to effect it. Yes, I did the closed throttle 150 mV adjustment (460 mV at idle 4800 odd at WOT). I don't think I have the little screw on my ECU. Regards Roy

[quote name='raz' date='21 April 2010 - 08:17 AM' I also measured 0.3 ohms fwiw. Thanks Raz, The article talks about a contact in the solenoid, I suspect there may be a coil in series with the armature to pull it in that gets shorted by the main contact and anothet to ground to hold the solenoid in place, I'm curious now so I will get to the bottom of it. BTW as an apprentice one of our main tasks in the winter was refurbishing starters and generators for workmates cars, mainly old British variety. This is the first one I have seen with a planitary gear and permanent magnets, but motorbikes were all kick start back then.

Yes, good point, I mentioned that in my attachment, without the extra load the LED is on all the time. I just used one of the old lamps since I didn't have a suitable resistor handy, besides the lamp has another advantage, low resistance when cold giving a higher voltage to the thermistor thus making it more sensitive. Mine works great, starts by intermittent operation on braking then full on well before running out, nice and bright too. Roy

I think the holder will pop out the back you just have to reef on it Roy

Hi, When I measure the starter coil to ground I get a very low reading ~ 0.3 Ohms, yikes, that's 40 Amps, but it draws ~ 6 Amps when energized. I suspect there is a special wiring arrangement inside the starter, dual coil or contact, If anyone has the internal drawing i would appreciate it so I can add to an upcoming troubleshooting drawing. It's riding season, I don't feel like pulling mine off just to see how it's arranged. Thanks Roy

I thought I would share this. In the course of doing my little Test Point Layout drawing I probed the points with my multimeter. I tested for Ohms with all relays and fuses removed and battery + wires disconnected. I found that measuring from the near side of F6 to TP-b on relay 3 checks both contacts of the ignition switch at the same time. The readings I got (turning Off/On) were about 2 Ohms +/- 0.5 Ohms with the odd reading around 60. I made a mental note that the switch would need some attention. Sure enough, over the weekend after stopping one time the bike ran like a hairy goat so I pulled over and operated the switch a few times and it was fine after that. Last night I pulled the switch off (remove headlight and two large Allen screws) The back comes off the switch by pressing firmly on two of the little tabs until you can get a small screwdriver under. (It helps here if you were born with three arms or perhaps it unplugs from the harness so you can mount it in a vice.), Then the contact block comes out by releasing another clip. I didn't see anything obvious but wiped all the old grease off and gave the contacts a very light touch up with fine sandpaper. Next I applied some vaseline (petroleum jelly) and re assembled. Lo and behold now when I test every time I operate the switch I get a reading of 0.7 Ohms (± 0.1) so I don't expect I will have any more trouble there for a while. If you decide to test your own switch, first short your meter leads together to measure the lead resistance, the test reading should be 5 Ohms think about servicing the switch. As I mentioned it's quite tricky getting the switch apart but well worth the effort. A word about Petroleum Jelly aka Vaseline I learned as an apprentice, 45+ years ago, this stuff is gawd's gift to electrical contacts. I use it everywhere from battery terminals to dipping my wires in it before crimping into a lug. It lubricates sliding contacts and prevents air and water from attacking copper surfaces. You may have your own fancy tub of electrical contact grease but good old petroleum jelly is all I need. It even has a few non related uses if you know what I mean

My bike has a set of Mistral mufflers added by PO, they sound great, They look similar to those only carbon fiber. My 2c worth.

Yes they are very hard to pull out that way because the lamp supports the rubber boot. I pulled mine from the front. If you take the cover of the light slide a piece of tubing e.g. heat shrink over the lamp you can grip it with needle nosed pliers. I replaced all my lamps with LEDs . The lamp-holders leave a lot to be desired, some lamps have a double sided contact that causes a short circuit when they are inserted (see attached) because of this I soldered them in place. Alternately you could order new lamp bases and glue them in place. They look brighter than the original, I am very pleased with them. Because LEDs have a very narrow light wavelength you must chose a lamp the same colour as the lens. Guzzi Lamps.pdf Roy

It's possible to replace the connectors in the relay bases, they are a standard item in a good automotive parts provider. There are two different sizes in the base. I get the connectors out by releasing them from the top with a pop rivet nail filed to a chisel shape. I suspect relay 5 is subject to very high short term currents (average will be much lower) as the injectors fire, any resistance at all will prevent them firing properly. As well as the injectors, 2 coils and pump. If it happens again try placing a jumper from one of the other fuses right across to a handy point in the injector, coil, pump wire thus shorting across relay 5 to see if that cures it. Regards Roy

Updated Drawings Attached, I also added note 12 in response to Raz with the timing diagram flat lined on sensor fail. This makes perfect sense, the ECU needs to know where to fire the injectors and spark A word of explanation on timing diagram on the layout R5's. When I turn the key on R5 gives a very short blip then a short delay then picks up again to prime the pump for 1 or 2 seconds. If your bike dies with not even trying to start check on R5, swap it with one of the other relays like the starter relay. Actually the starter relay socket is a good spot to test a relay because every part of it is tested N/O to run the starter and NC to run the headlight. Many thanks to all who contributed to the project,keep those cards and letters coming. Remember I am new to Guzzi, many of you have a lifetime of experience to share You should now have Rev C of the schematic and the layout with April 19th at the bottom right. Regards Roy (attachments removed, see latest at top of thread)

Yes, I have a 1 amp charger after leaving it on overnight the battery is 13.5 (charger removed back in the bike) but after running all day I killed the engine to turn off the headlight straight away and measured 12.5 so I suspect the regulator is set internally at 12.5. Perhaps it's putting out the correct ~ 15 v and I am loosing some in the wiring. Does anyone have a schematic of the regulator internals? Thanks Roy

Heres the latest layout. If anyone has any comments or tips to add please PM me. Raz, is the timing diagram "Crankshaft Sensor fail" shown correctly or does relay 5 not pick up at all after the initial brief run when the key is turned on? I guess I should disconnect the sensor and try it, perhaps next week. I drew the diagram after observing the LEDs i added on each relay. Thanks (attachment removed, see latest at top of thread May 18 2010) Roy

My V11 has similar symptoms, just misses a beat now and then at idle or under moderate steady power, it misses about 1 in 1000. It seems to me like the ignition is missing or perhaps the injectors not opening. I have only just set the TPS and balanced the throttles. The Italian Sneeze is an apt description. Roy

Raz, Easy mistake to make, I missed it also, even the drawing in the manual shows it open, not closed as it should. In hind-site I think using the switch is more problem than it's worth. I will go with your original, 2 relays, 2 diodes, it's simple and elegant, I wonder if the kit-set mentioned has the diode backup feature. I bought all the parts, ran a New # 12 from a fuse at the battery and another #12 ground back from headlight to frame under the tank. I was fixated on having the headlight off because I ran my new battery flat while testing after about 15 minutes, now after riding all day I find my battery is only charged to 12.5 Volts, the warning light comes on below about 1500 rpm. I obviously have a charging problem which I need to fix, once that's sorted the headlight on will be dead issue. All the connections are tight, perhaps it's the regulator, are you aware of any issues with those? NB, the battery charges to normal 13.5 on a trickle charger Roy

Raz, As a public service, please post your latest relay wiring diagram here on this thread along with an explanation. I'm sure it will get used by many, myself included. I picked up the wire and parts last night. Don't need a relay base just 2 different sizes of spade connectors. What did you do to keep the diodes from overheating (actually the won't as long as the relays and new supply are working) I will re-use some of the relays I replaced a while back, even if one fails it will be backed up by the diode with a noticable loss in performance i.e. back to standard glimmer. Regards Roy

Wow, that's just what I want, please tell me more, where can I get a "Ruckus Zbar". I have been looking at chrome bars but they would look out of place on the V11. Did you re-enforce the bar where it clamps, perhaps a solid rod or thick walled pipe. Would it be possible to route the wiring thru the bars? Good Idea on your part. Roy

I use a Mac with a cheap drawing program EzDraw and just make my own symbols. The coils are a simple Belzier curve (I probably spelled that wrong), just one turn copied and pasted next to it. I haven't got proficient yet but doing these diagrams is helping for sure. 45+ years of looking at schematics helps also. I have very little experience with the Guzzi having owned mine for Any troubleshooting tips re the V11 would be appreciated BTW the "Wiring Layout" needs a lot of work, I have red ink all over it already. Regards Roy

Raz posted a simple, elegent diagram on the other thread. Easy to implement with few wiring changes. He figures that with a Halogen lamp and the voltage drop I observed the light loss exceeds 35%. Adding relays will eliminate any loss due to high resistance joints and contacts. Roy

OK, heres the latest. Not many changes to the schematic but have added a second sheet wiring layout which shows the relays and fuse panel. I traced all this out on my bike, hopefully the orientation is the same on others. I removed all fuses and relays and disconnected the battery + while I tested for continuity etc. While doing so I found that my ignition switch is inconsistent in Ohms reading sometimes as high as 60 Ohms so I suspect I will need to look at that in the near future. I think from the fuse base and relay bases you can verify much of the bikes wiring. erratic readings point to loose connection or dirty contacts etc. Regards Roy OOOPS, I left a wire off the coil of R5, that goes to pin 19 of the ECU Attachments removed - the latest is at top of thread Roy May 18 2010

I agree with you there but the wiring should be sized to minimize voltage drop. With 12V system the drop is not such a problem, I was surprised to find it so bad. Adding relays in the headlight along with decent size supply and return will make a significant improvement to the light output. The relays could also be installed under the seat, but more wiring would be involved. Roy

I was triggered into thinking about this By Raz's Headlight relay addition. Last night while checking my diagram I took the time to take a few measurements. Measuring voltage drop from battery to 60/55 Watt headlight I get 1.2 Volts drop on High beam, Voltage across lamp 10.87 1.05 Volts drop on Low beam, Voltage across lamp 10.99 My battery voltage was 12.8 12.8-1.2=11.6 (not 10.87) so obviously there's some voltage drop in the return wire as well. If I calculate the Wattage I get 49 Watts at the 60 Watt lamp i.e. a loss of 18% I suspect the actual light loss is greater than 18% because the light output vs power input is not a linear relationship. Obviously ther's much to be gained by modifying the wiring as Raz has done. While you are at it run a good solid return wire as well. Roy

Rheostat, Potentiometer they are used to mean the same thing, a variable resistor in other words. I plan on doing this test shortly, I have adjusted the sensor acording to this multi page post (100 pages to print) and balanced the throttle bodies. I will make a small box that offsets the mV to simulate re-positioning the sensor (zero Elevation/Supression in Instrumentation speak), mounted near the left hand grip where it's convenient to reach. I haven't quite figured it all out yet but I expect it will take a while to compare different settings. I removed my Power Commander for the test, once I get it running as good as possible I will re-install. I may be wrong but I suspect the Commander may do the same thing (zero shift). Will report back BTW - it's a pity that this important thread has so many posts to wade through, can someone not abreviate it or appoint a guru to make a simple one page replacement to pin in it's place, just saying that's all. Regards Roy

Raz wrote "I bought a complete set of GEI relays from PyroDan " Roy wrote "Another source of relays, I bought mine from www.Digikey.com Omron G8HN-1C2T-R0DC12 $4.59 ea from (digikey part Z2247-ND) They also have the Cherry microswitches for the clutch and brake levers Cherry DC1C-A1AA for $4.56 (digikey part CH290-ND) I just bought an unsealed version of the switch from The Source (Canada's Radio Shack)" no doubt I will be replacing that again soon. Sorry Raz, I keep getting the message quote messed up Roy

Raz, I think your latest post is a good compromise, it is an easy upgrade, just one new wire from the battery and some simple wiring inside the headlamp. I would say only one thing, you should use the same relays and fuses the rest of the bike. You might also consider one of the self resetting circuit breakers instead of a fuse. (recover after an intermittent short) If you loose F5 you will still loose all lights but it would be very easy to hot wire across to get you home. I came up with a slightly different circuit using 2 relays and the oil switch. One relay used as a change over so it fails to Low Beam but I will try to stay focused on the wiring schematic. BTW has anyone done a test to see how much voltage is lost between the battery and headlight on the existing system? Regards Roy