Is my Electrosport Stator Defective?

[Sam P]

9 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

It is so the brush issue is not a factor. This t/shooting is being done the wrong way around. Whats needed is the reg output to the battery and if thats bad then worry about the alternator output. Personally I'd ditch the LED headlight and go back to the original headlight and see what happens first just to get a base line. The reg senses voltage via the headlight supply so there is an effect there. What reg did you install? the hard wired one to the battery or the original style that senses from the headlight circuit? If the latter that connection might be a place worth looking at as well. The alt light comes on when the alternator voltage drops below battery voltage so at elevated rpm the battery is doing all the work. Sounds like a dud reg to me.

Phil 

My new reg is the Electrosport ESR515, not hard wired to the battery. The DC volts at the battery are:

>13.2-13.5 ignition off

>13.0-3 ignition on

>26v revved to 3-5K (this seems too high, no?)

[Sam P]

11 hours ago, gstallons said:

I will have to look back through my stash and see about the V output at different RPMs. The MG manual (I think) gives these V output at specific RPMs.

You say the light comes on at 4k RPM? Does the light go off when the RPMs drop?  

 

Yes alt light turns off when revs drop below 4K

[Lucky Phil]

29 minutes ago, Sam P said:

My new reg is the Electrosport ESR515, not hard wired to the battery. The DC volts at the battery are:

>13.2-13.5 ignition off

>13.0-3 ignition on

>26v revved to 3-5K (this seems too high, no?)

Way too high. Looks like you have a reg issue.

Phil

[Sam P]

31 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Way too high. Looks like you have a reg issue.

Phil

Brand new reg. Any suggested fix, or should I just buy the one from Electrosport with a dedicated + wire to the battery?

[Tomchri]

11 minutes ago, Sam P said:

Brand new reg. Any suggested fix, or should I just buy the one from Electrosport with a dedicated + wire to the battery?

YES. Or get the Shindengen from Roadstercycle.

Cheers Tom

[gstallons]

 26v at the battery ? Heii yeah that's too much ! that light gives you an undercharge or overcharge status.  When you call to inform them of the bad regulator be sure to give them these V #s. Don't ride this until you get this fixed. 

[Pressureangle]

4 hours ago, Sam P said:

Brand new reg. Any suggested fix, or should I just buy the one from Electrosport with a dedicated + wire to the battery?

But before you blame the regulator, you *must* verify the system voltage value the regulator sees. 
The way an electronic regulator works, is not to control voltage absolutely but rather to deliver rectified (DC) voltage to the battery in very short bursts (PWM, or pulse width modulation) So your battery will actually see much higher voltage than your multimeter reads for very short periods. Your DMM, unless a very high-end one where you can choose, will default to measuring by RMS (root mean square) or a fancy way of saying 'average voltage over time'. If your regulator can't actually see what's happening at the battery, it just goes WFO hoping to see a signal to turn itself off, rinse and repeat in microscopic intervals. 
Message is, verify your voltage regulator sensor circuit. Replace the LED bulb with an incandescent one for testing. Doesn't have to be the same size even, just plugs in and something around 50-100 watts. 

[Pressureangle]

Here's a link to *a* schematic- for 2004. If anyone has a good 2000-2001 schematic, particularly in English (Did KiwiRoy do this?) I'd like to see it.

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/wiring_v11-without-catalytic-converter_2004_it-en-fr-de.pdf

Here are the Italian color translations
 

Italian Color Name	English Equivalent	Notes
Rosso	Red	Standard red; can imply a vibrant or warm shade.
Blu	Blue	General term for blue, covering various shades.
Giallo	Yellow	Standard yellow, from bright to mustard tones.
Verde	Green	General green, encompassing light to dark shades.
Nero	Black	Pure black, used universally.
Bianco	White	Pure white, used universally.
Arancione	Orange	Standard orange, derived from "arancia" (orange fruit).
Viola	Purple	General purple, from light lavender to deep violet.
Rosa	Pink	General pink, often a soft or medium shade.
Marrone	Brown	Standard brown, often warm or earthy.
Grigio	Gray	General gray, from light to dark shades.
Azzurro	Light Blue / Sky Blue	A softer, brighter blue, often associated with the sky.
Celeste	Sky Blue / Pale Blue	Lighter than azzurro, often used for pastel or baby blue.
Beige	Beige	Neutral, light brownish-yellow, same as English usage.
Avorio	Ivory	Off-white with a creamy or yellowish tint.
Oro	Gold	Metallic or bright yellow-gold shade.
Argento	Silver	Metallic gray or silver shade.
Turchese	Turquoise	Blue-green shade, similar to the gemstone.
Cremisi	Crimson	Deep, rich red with a slight purple undertone.
Porpora	Purple / Deep Red	Historically a reddish-purple or deep scarlet, depending on context.
Ocra	Ochre	Earthy yellow-brown, often used in art or design.
Smeraldo	Emerald	Rich, deep green, like the gemstone.
Zaffiro	Sapphire	Deep, vibrant blue, like the gemstone.
Amaranto	Amaranth / Magenta	A reddish-purple or deep pinkish-red shade.
Ciano	Cyan	Bright blue-green, often used in design or printing.
Magenta	Magenta	Vibrant pinkish-purple, same as English usage.
Carminio	Carmine	Bright, vivid red with a slight orange undertone.
Bordeaux	Burgundy	Deep red, like the wine, with a purple tint.
Ecru	Ecru	Unbleached linen color, pale beige or off-white.

 

So it looks like the regulator has a light blue wire to sense voltage- this aligns with mine, though it's been cut away from the harness- the light (AZ) wire passes through a couple of connectors, then the 'charge' lamp, then to the tachometer +. When the differential between the regulator and the system reaches a sufficient level, the lamp illuminates- this also explains (probably) the high-rpm lamp, in that at low speed the current flows one way, in an overcharge state the current flows the opposite direction. 
By the schematic, I'd start looking at the back of the Tacho where the wire from the charge lamp connects. That wire on my 2000 is Red/Black, traced from the charge lamp to the + terminal on the tacho. If the Tacho ground is bad, that could be the issue, and they're famous for poor grounds. 
Pic for visibility

 

[docc]

1 hour ago, Pressureangle said:

 If anyone has a good 2000-2001 schematic, particularly in English (Did KiwiRoy do this?) I'd like to see it.

 

Yeah, man: Carl Allison ( @callison ), also archived on thisoldtractor under "Resources":

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/sportissimo.html

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/pdfs/1999_V11_sport.pdf

@Weegie has also archived content in his dropbox:

 

[Pressureangle]

After a short nap I have to go a little deeper. The red/black wire on the tach does not go to ground, so the tach ground is not likely an issue. 

Phil had said at the beginning that the VR takes it's signal through the headlight circuit, and that's the case here. The yellow wire is hot to the tach through the headlight switch, which powers through the F6 fuse, which powers through the keyswitch. 
So, what the lamp sees as system voltage is whatever makes it's way through all these junctions, switches, and connections; every connection introduces some resistance, and every resistance is telling the VR to output more power. Taking the brute force approach, I'd run a jumper wire directly from battery + to the headlight socket yellow wire, bypassing everything and seeing if the regulator then acts right. 

Understand I operate under the parable, 'A man teaches best that which he most needs to learn' and before now I haven't reviewed any of the later-than-my-97 V11 wiring, but it's relevant to my own efforts at the moment so time spent here is as valuable to me as it hopefully will be to you.

[Sam P]

32 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

After a short nap I have to go a little deeper. The red/black wire on the tach does not go to ground, so the tach ground is not likely an issue. 

Phil had said at the beginning that the VR takes it's signal through the headlight circuit, and that's the case here. The yellow wire is hot to the tach through the headlight switch, which powers through the F6 fuse, which powers through the keyswitch. 
So, what the lamp sees as system voltage is whatever makes it's way through all these junctions, switches, and connections; every connection introduces some resistance, and every resistance is telling the VR to output more power. Taking the brute force approach, I'd run a jumper wire directly from battery + to the headlight socket yellow wire, bypassing everything and seeing if the regulator then acts right. 

Understand I operate under the parable, 'A man teaches best that which he most needs to learn' and before now I haven't reviewed any of the later-than-my-97 V11 wiring, but it's relevant to my own efforts at the moment so time spent here is as valuable to me as it hopefully will be to you.

Thanks and I'll need to digest all of this new information and get back here. In the meantime, this afternoon, I ran a 10GA wire from the red reg/rec output wire, directly to the battery +, bypassing the factory wiring harness aka loom. Took a quick test ride and still, the battery light went on at 4K revs, and goes out at lower revs. Also, FWIW, isn't the battery light supposed to go on when the ignition is switched on? My light doesn't do it....

Edited September 13 by Sam P

[Pressureangle]

46 minutes ago, Sam P said:

 isn't the battery light supposed to go on when the ignition is switched on? My light doesn't do it....

Yes, it is. Current should flow through the ignition switch, fuse, headlight switch, and up to the tach where it passes through to the charge lamp; the regulator seeing no input from the generator passes that current through to ground, illuminating the lamp. When the generator charges the regulator, it puts an opposing charge back into the lamp wire. When these are balanced, the lamp is dark. So it seems likely that you have a problem on the power side of the regulator with a less likely possibility that the regulator has some weird internal failure. A simple test would be key-on engine off test light (not DMM) at the lamp wire + post on the back of the tach. No light, no current. 

[Sam P]

13 hours ago, Pressureangle said:

Yes, it is. Current should flow through the ignition switch, fuse, headlight switch, and up to the tach where it passes through to the charge lamp; the regulator seeing no input from the generator passes that current through to ground, illuminating the lamp. When the generator charges the regulator, it puts an opposing charge back into the lamp wire. When these are balanced, the lamp is dark. So it seems likely that you have a problem on the power side of the regulator with a less likely possibility that the regulator has some weird internal failure. A simple test would be key-on engine off test light (not DMM) at the lamp wire + post on the back of the tach. No light, no current. 

OK thank you. As I have noted, both the regulator and stator are new from Electrosport, so it does seem unlikely that they were defective out of the box. It's going to take me a few days to troubleshoot this, as I have a bunch of other stuff getting into my schedule. Thank you again and I will perform your suggested test and report back.

[gstallons]

Does the charge light come on KOEO ? key on engine off

[Sam P]

4 hours ago, gstallons said:

Does the charge light come on KOEO ? key on engine off

Nope. See the suggestion from @Pressureangle a few posts above.Your input would of course be welcome as well. I have no clue!

Edited Sunday at 11:45 PM by Sam P