Dr Gil Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 See....this is why one beer at a time won't work.Several beers will relieve alot of your stress while having little adverse effect on the overall project. Don't know if you have the parts fische >> http://mphcycles.com/Parts%20Manuals/GU003...920090_1100.pdf Sorry but I don't know how to lift images off it. (Adobe thing?) I gather your talking about frame piece # 2 on D7? Looks simple in the drawing...yea,,,with no wires and plumbing running through it. Hopefully if you remove the bolts you'll have the slop to get your cover off. I can't imagine you really damaged the seal ...maybe it got that way from the factory.. but while your in there...anyway. Though next time it will only take you 90 minutes....and a 12 pack. I haven't been confronted with this problem but it looks like a pain in the buttt. Not a high tech thing but alot of nigling and no space to work. Good practice for changing the headlight on a LeMans. 69951[/snapback] Whaa, frame sections come OFF??? Crap, if I'd of known that it would have saved me SO MUCH TIME! Oh foolish me...and yes, I do have the parts fische (sent to me by Todd at MPH Cycles...thank you again) but failed to make full use of it and to understand that the "frame" is actually in pieces! True, removing the tank is more work than I originally signed up for but at least it is something I've done before and it gives me some hope. With that obstinate section of frame out of the way EVERYTHING will become SO VERY MUCH easier! And yes, I think with it out of the way I think I will be able to get the cover off. Every day the pile of parts around the basic hulk grows. Tomorrow I will add more to it. Eventually I suspect I will be surrounded by nothing but various (sorted by where they were originally positioned on the bike and in size place) piles of parts...I sure hope this is not some kind of a sick joke you old timers play on the new guys to get him to totally disassemble their bikes...if so your better believe I'm a gonna come a lookin' for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike wilson Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Two things: 1. You almost certainly haven't damaged the seal yet - they do weep a bit when disturbed. 2. You probably will damage it if you don't remove the key in the slot that locates the generator rotor. Just pull it out and stick it to the rotor. Permanent magnets are wonderful things. As you bring the cover off, watch out for the seal catching on burrs, threads, etc, on the shaft. mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Urrrgh! I'm sure i've pulled the timing chest cover off V11's with the sub frames in place???? Look, I could be wrong, but quite simply it isn't a real issue. Once the tank is off you'll find that the sub frames are retained by allen bolts, undo the ones towards the back of the bike, take them out and loosen the front ones and the sub frames can be swung forward and you should be able to remove the timing chest cover. One thing i would recomend is that you DON'T try to cut corners. If you think "Well, it would be easier if I take part 'X' off but perhaps i can get away with jiggling 'Y' and holding my tongue at the right angle? DON'T!!!! You'll simply be making your job harder and will probably end up damaging something. I can understand if you haven't been in to anything much mechanical before it may seem daunting. All I can say is 'Don't be Daunted'. the Guzzi engine is a model of simplicity, what causes people to stuff up is two main things, 1.) Cutting corners. And 2.) not thinking about the 'WHY' of how things are. try to get inside the head of the bloke who designed it and you'll find that it is all, really, very straightforward and simple. You aren't being asked to tollerance bearings here, you're replacing a gasket. Remember that. If you're bright enough to ask for help you can replace your timing chest gasket, belive me, I've walked people through far worse over the internet!!!!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 PS. Beer and swearing are obligatory! I Had to strip a Mk IV motor today and there was a LOT of both!!!! Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouiji Veck Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Parts..... Thats the scarriest thing to me....not loseing anything. I use an assortment of tubs and trays and often puit any small nuts bolts etc. back in the holes of what ever larger part I just took off. (sigh....my SP has been apart for a year now...scarry) A previous post mentioned the "woodruff" key in the shaft....Got that somewhere safe??? And don't don't don't forget it reassembling.... I'll remember to remind you when you get going in the other direction. It's remenisent of a piece in a carburator widely known as the "Jesus Clip" because if you drop it or place it somewhere unfortunate the first words oh of your mouth is "Oh Jesus" Especially since most of the time I've lost it is between heats @ the track. Maybe we could rename the woodruff key the "Dammm IT key" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 I usually put spare parts and nuts/bolts into ziplock bags with a note to remind me what they were. Anyone need a ziplock bag with a spring and two small roller bearings? Oh- I would go ahead and order a new seal depending on the price. It's probably fine, but if you have a spare on hand, then it will definitely be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Yep to all above .... it will come off, just have patience, and no you don't have to drop the engine I know it all seems daunting, but think of it as a "rite of passage" in that, once you do a couple of these relatively minor, but seemingly intimidating, maintenance tasks on the bike.... your skills and confidence in this regard will increase(making subsequent similar tasks less daunting) ... and your nervousness about not having a local dealer will decrease .... all good things Plus, at least it is now Winter, so even if you are a hard-core rider, it was likely you'd be riding as much this time of year anyway. So it's good timing ...still very sorry to see all the trouble you've gone through over the last 18 months with "Napkins of Death", dying Triumphs, and your odyssey of Guzzi purchasing. But I think it will all work out, and by next Spring you will be better for it all, as you'll really feel more confident about the Guzzi, etc. Good luck! Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 ...I can understand if you haven't been in to anything much mechanical before it may seem daunting. All I can say is 'Don't be Daunted'. the Guzzi engine is a model of simplicity, what causes people to stuff up is two main things, 1.) Cutting corners. And 2.) not thinking about the 'WHY' of how things are. try to get inside the head of the bloke who designed it and you'll find that it is all, really, very straightforward and simple. You aren't being asked to tollerance bearings here, you're replacing a gasket. Remember that. Yeah, what Pete said. Try to get a mental image of the physics involved. Forget Newton. Think Warner Brothers. "Roadrunner and Coyote" flashbacks can be very helpful guides to the obvious solution... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Stewart Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 A friend of mine takes pictures with a digital camera as he takes things apart. This is a "just in case of a humm....I forgot what I was going to say... Now where did I put those supplements for memory loss.... Mike I usually put spare parts and nuts/bolts into ziplock bags with a note to remind me what they were. Anyone need a ziplock bag with a spring and two small roller bearings? Oh- I would go ahead and order a new seal depending on the price. It's probably fine, but if you have a spare on hand, then it will definitely be ok. 70001[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al_roethlisberger Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 A friend of mine takes pictures with a digital camera as he takes things apart. This is a "just in case of a humm....I forgot what I was going to say... Now where did I put those supplements for memory loss.... Mike 70007[/snapback] Yeah, actually this is why I kept an old polaroid camera in my garage for years Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ouiji Veck Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Anyone need a ziplock bag with a spring and two small roller bearings? Oh- I would go ahead and order a new seal depending on the price. It's probably fine, but if you have a spare on hand, then it will definitely be ok. 70001[/snapback] That made me laugh out loud. This is the humor of my tribe. We are a poor people but a stupid people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gil Posted December 8, 2005 Author Share Posted December 8, 2005 Well, the timing cover is off! Removing the bolts at the back of the sub-frame then loosening the front bolts allowed me to rotate the frame forward and it gave me just enough room to get the cover off! Thanks for the great tip Pete! So now my problem is twofold. The seal in the middle of the cover is rubber with a tiny spring inside a lip to keep it snug against the shaft. When removing I pulled the spring part way out. I've managed to put it back together and the rubber still seems smooth but I wonder if I should replace it. My second problem may make that point moot however. I've got a cracked timing cover You can barely see it on the outside of the cover but is quite obvious on the inside. Can this be simply repaired by JB Welding it and have lasting results (I really, really don't want to have to go down this road a second time) or should I just bite the expense of a new timing cover and resign myself to the inevitable long wait until it arrives? I await your counsel. Meanwhile here's a picture of the mighty Le Mans as the end of today's adventure. I can't believe what you guys have made me do to my (formerly) beautiful Italian girl!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX REDNECK (R.I.P.) Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Dr. Gil, I'm not sure what would be your best way to go on the timing cover but, that seal is history. You're gonna have to replace it. On second thought I would try JB weld on the timing cover before I'd spring for a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ratchethack Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 Well, the timing cover is off! Congrat's, Doc! Would this Forum steer you wrong? (um,..the answer is NO!) You already got my vote on the JB Weld on the crack vs. a new cover, FWIW. By all means, throw my vote out if you feel like it - my take is never better than "shade-tree" category... Of course you can't go wrong replacing the cover. But looking at your photo, it's a "small hairline" crack in my book, and I wouldn't think twice about it. Just make sure to prep the area thoroughly with solvent to get all traces of oil off the aluminum, and see if you can work the epoxy into the crack as much as you can and leave a nice "fillet" around the area of the crack. Chances are you'll have a 100% leak-proof result. Brings to memory my old Bultaco Pursang. She responded very well to this treatment on numerous occasions, as did several other less memorable moto's. Please resist any advice to have the cover welded. I'd definitely replace it before I went this route. The heat of the welding would warp it so far out of shape that you'll never be able to get the mating surface true again - don't ask how I know this (another bike - can't remember which). Someone will no doubt note that the crack appears to have invaded the screw-mounting boss in the casting, and they'll insist you have to replace it. Now this is something to think about because this casting has structural stress on it from the subframe, but IMHO all the damage that was going to happen already happened at the shock of impact. From the looks of it, what risk of further cracking remains is insignificant and shouldn't make any difference whatsoever - but that's just me. Now let the howling begin... The seal in the middle of the cover is rubber with a tiny spring inside a lip to keep it snug against the shaft. When removing I pulled the spring part way out. I've managed to put it back together and the rubber still seems smooth but I wonder if I should replace it. What TR said. You gotta replace it. Best have no doubts on this. Meanwhile...I can't believe what you guys have made me do to my (formerly) beautiful Italian girl!!! Look at it this way - This is merely a manicure and it'll all be over soon. It could have been something like a boob job (cylinder re-bore and head rebuild) - or even a hysterectomy (crank, flywheel, clutch, and trans rebuild). In either case, she'd be needing a shrink... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd haven Posted December 8, 2005 Share Posted December 8, 2005 It's your time, and your money. Think again about how little you want to de the job over, and how you wil kick yourself if leaks "just a little bit". Then order the cover. And no, I don't have one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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