docc
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Posts posted by docc
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myWife is away for the weekend. Maybe I should slip a bike into the house and see how it goes . . .
Anyone have a spare room?
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3 minutes ago, audiomick said:
Why is the expression "Beta tester" bouncing around my mind just now?
Feeling more Zeta, here.
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Thanks, @Speedfrog! We knew it was there, somewhere!
From the beginning, the tune-up procedure in the V11 Workshop Manual came in for a lot of criticism. Hence, the various alternative methods to achieve reliable tuning outcomes with the V11 Sport/LeMans variants.
Take, for example, the phrase " . . . completely closed throttle on the attached rod. "
It is, in fact, not possible to completely close the throttle (plate) when attached to the (throttle linkage) rod. Attempting to set the TPS in this fashion would be completely ineffective with a pathetic outcome.
Further, allowing a range in the TPS setting that indexes the map a step (or two or three steps) off, would lead to the kind of stumbling, hiccups, idle instability, and other complaints commonly attributed to the V11. While there are maybe a half dozen or more contributors to this undesirable running behavior, performing the "Decent Tune-up", with particular attention to the TPS procedure (Step #2), has benefited countless numbers of V11s.
I might suggest that the " +/- 15 mV" language at the very end of the section "If, after this procedure, the idling speed is not within the indicated range " is to prevent the shop technician from fussing with the parameters for another hour. That is, after all, what owners are for . . .
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12 hours ago, audiomick said:
Yes, chapter 20 of section I.
I looked again last night, but still couldn't find where I read +/- 15. Annoying...
Anyway...
Interesting, I recall that range as well, but cannot find a reference to it. Early on, I recall setting my TPS to 165mV (top of the "range") thinking 1) this will give me more fuel and 2) all modern bikes are lean.
Both of these assertions are, of course totally wrong. All I succeeded in was to index the mapping a step off.
My experience since has borne out Meinolf's 157 mV setting, perhaps +/- 3 in order to stay within the same step on the lookup table.
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Full disclosure: I did not start motorcycling until age 35.
First bike: 500cc single cylinder Honda (still in the fold). My local Honda dealer said, "You'll be bored in six months ."
Indeed so.
I bought an 800cc Honda twin (Pacific Coast). It served me well. For a few years, until I "needed" a "liter bike."
Which launched the slippery slope . . .
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I have mySport because myWife said I should.
One should not quibble with these sorts of directives . . .
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Heh, so "racing" is a kind of Third World experience?
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In the Workshop Manual, Section I/ Carburation Procedure (page 52 in my manual), the TPS setting is specified at 150mV (no range). The idle setting of the TPS is given in a range, but shown in Throttle Plate opening angle in degrees (3.2º - 3.6º). [Please note the final idle rpm, idle TPS voltage, or idle throttle plate degrees are NOT critical, as long as the idle is not too low.]
What is critical: indexing the throttle plate opening to the map. This is the function of the TPS. On a V11 Sport/LeMans, this is set with an accurate voltmeter with the throttle plate completely closed.
More voltage is not better! @Meinolf determined the 157mV setting from his study of the actual lookup tables. IIRC, the steps in the lookup table are 7 mV. So, if a range could be derived: 153.5-160.5 (?)
Is close enough good enough? My experience has been that when the TPS indexing to the map is spot on, mySport runs magically, from idle stability to heat tolerance to the nefarious 2800 rpm *hiccup/stumble to the freight-train torque-pull into the upper reaches of the power band.
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40 minutes ago, audiomick said:
Don't count on it.
eleben
Piaggio has apparently engaged a lawyer's practice to hunt the internet for people and organisations using their brand names. The lawyer tried to make the german forum I am involved in transfer domain names etc. to Piaggio. They failed, or rather apparently gave up, after it was pointed out that using "guzzi-forum.de" for non-comercial uses is not against German law. That took a lawyer engaged by the forum, and cost a couple of thousand Euros.
However, as you are not running a web-site, probably that lawyers practice will not notice what you are doing. They are apparently scanning the internet and targetting use of the name(s) on the internet.
Precisely why I ride a Momo Gummi Vee'm elebben .
And you thought "Mo to Guz zi" dealers were hard to find?
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2 hours ago, guzzler said:
It is a nice looking home!
No way in hell would I be venturing out on a bike in weather like that either!
Jeez, what a difference in our weather I had my first dip in the pool for the year yesterday and a vino on the balcony...
I'm hoping my first ride of the year will be Friday before heading back to work on Monday!
Cheers
Ps Interesting about the doors, never took any notice before but ours here in Oz also open inwards.
Now, yer just pissin' me off . . .
How about some of those "Pics from down under?"
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Being about fifteen degrees (Fahrenheit) cooler today, I cheated and took my first ride of the year yesterday when it was sunny and 55ºF/13ºC.
A group of us used to get together on New Year's Day to ride regardless of the weather to kick off the year right. Before I became a slacker . . .
Looking forward to hearing about all of your 'First rides!"
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Congratulations, Pete! A well deserved "retirement" with a great plan to stay involved. Michael is a lucky fellow to have your trust, support, and acquaintance!
Best regards from all of V11LeMans.com and, by all means, keep us on your To Do List!
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I see the published seat height of the short frame V11 Sport, 1999-2001, is 800mm (31 1/2").
My Öhlins (not the OEM Guzzi part) is 5.5mm longer than the Sachs and the seat height is ~819mm (32 1/4").
So, my ride height increased about triple the change in shock length, but I went with a significantly stiffer spring and chose a more aggressive rider sag (25%) for the rear.
I suspect without the stronger spring and increased preload (if only the shock length changed), the change in ride height would have been about (well, you know):
"double-ish"
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Congratulations, @droydx !
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On 12/30/2023 at 4:12 PM, docc said:
Engineering professor:
"When a deflection of 6mm is applied in the x-axis to the
upper mounting point, calculate the mm change
in position of the rear mounting point in the y-axis:"
Student (docc):
"Er, doubl-ish?"
Engineering professor:
"Young man, have you considered a transfer to the Business College?"
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1 hour ago, p6x said:
How many patches do you think we need? you are the best person to answer since you know who maybe interested in such a patch.
From my own experience, I think 50 should most likely cover it all.
That is an excellent question! I see @footgoose's reply about using the spring and shift extender numbers as a guide. Those items, like @Pressureangle's Rusty Star Picket Project P.Roper plate (quantity= 50), have been distributed over some period of years.
I like footgoose's suggestion to use the poll as an indicator of initial demand, perhaps with a few additional for members to discover for a period of time.
The very nice LeMans jacket patch @p6x produced measures 4"/100mm across. Seems like a good size. How many of those were produced/distributed, p6x?
[edit: Where is the "vote/poll?"]
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Startng here, in February, and taking in so much input from members, this has been a dedicated effort, @p6x !
What a great progression and a really pleasing outcome! Welldone, sir!
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3 minutes ago, p6x said:
The drawing on the proposed patch is not meant to be an accurate copy; rather an artistic sketchy approach to the typical cylinder disposition and eagle.
I purposely chose it this way, to depart from what is already out there on the internet.
The Moto Guzzi name leaves no ground for misunderstanding on what is depicted.
Also, remember that when it will be made to an embroidery, the precision will not be the same.
Oh, my, yes . . . well thought.
What with piaggio's recent witch hunt, I wonder if the upper banner would be best as "V11Lemamans.com" with no reference to the registered brand (that we are otherwise carrying the banner for
),
. . . leaving room for the eagle to stretch, broadly across the bottom of the patch . . .
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I do love the Carcano green background!
Is it easily possible to rotate the eagle's wingtips level and stretch its aspect ratio to extend beyond the cylinders? I think this would lend to a better sense of forward motion . . .
For reference, only:
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21 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:
It would be easier to just go out and swap shocks docc, lol. My 2-3mm is clearly wrong as I halved the additional shock length instead of doubling it and subtracting a bit for the shock and swingarm angle. BTW the Penske suggestion is a good one. I've had one of these apart on the race bike and they are excellent quality and a step above the OEM Ohlins. People don't realise that Ohlins suspension comes in different grades and the OEM stuff while decent isn't the magic gold people thing it is. It's a marketing exercise by the manufacturers more than a massive upgrade in suspension quality. The Ohlins "benefit" has reduced as time has passed because the Japanese/Italian OEM suspension is so much better than it used to be. I say this not to denigrate the Ohlins stuff but to make people aware that there is many other superior options out there from aftermarket manufacturers that people seem to ignore in the "worship of the gold". The money asked for a second hand Ohlins shock for a V11 is ridiculous these days when you can buy a superior tailored shock of better quality new. Remember the original V11 Ohlins shock is now 25 year old tech and materials
Phil
So . . . no one has volunteered to perform the assigned geometry problem, yet . . .
But, we can agree that increased shock length approximately is doubled in ride height?
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This sort of thing is precisely why I exited the College of Engineering at university . . .
When a deflection of 6mm is applied in the x-axis to the upper mounting point, calculate the mm change in position of the rear mounting point in the y-axis:
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Hmm, so if shock travel = approximately double the suspension travel (2" of shock travel = about 4" of suspension travel) [sorry for the inch measures, y'all), then an increase in shock length would be doubled at the ride height?
Such that my +6mm Öhlins would have increased ride height about a half inch? (yeah, mixing inch and metric, I know
)
There is a dimensioned drawing of the swingarm in the early Workshop Manual. Someone could do this geometry . . .
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A great beginning, without having to already own a bike, is to take a local Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) Beginner's Rider Course. A weekend course, typically, with some classroom, but a lot of "range time" performing specific skill exercises on a 250cc bike (usually various models to choose from). The course culminates with a riding evaluation and many states accept the completion certificate for a motorcycle license (varies by state).
They offer a range intensive Experienced Rider's Course that is perfect to come back on the new rider's bike of choice.
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10 hours ago, MartyNZ said:
I fitted a Wilbers 641-519-01 to my 03 long frame bike. It's an easy swap. It is 5mm longer than the original Sachs Boge.
Sachs: 280.5mm center to center.
Wilbers: 285.4mm.
I only realized the extra shock length when the rear tire just touched the ground while on the maintenance stand, after I fitted the new shock and a new tire.
I see the Öhlins shock fitted to my short frame Sport is 286mm (relative to the factory Sachs 280.5).
The change is ride height was notable, yet also affected (likely more so) by the stiffer spring and more aggressive sag settings.
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Report your 1st of January 2024 ride here / 1st 2024 ride works too...
in Special place for banter and conversation
Posted
What is German for "Bugger?"
"Ach du liebe?"