Lucky Phil
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Posts posted by Lucky Phil
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4 hours ago, ScuRoo said:
Si intravedono sotto il serbatoio i due tubi per convogliare l'aria nell'airbox
The two pipes are visible under the tank to convey the air into the airbox.
Wouldn't want to be around the next time his wife wants to vacuum. Very,um, Utilitarian.
Ciao
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5 hours ago, footgoose said:
so, it didn't connect to the post I asked it to so... scroll to 'Large Blocks, V10 V11' , then to 'V11 gear box spring break, the cause.' It's worth the trip
https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&u=https://www.forumguzzi.fr/&prev=search
Seems legit
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13 hours ago, po18guy said:
What flows best? Open velocity stacks without a screen. Emphasis on "velocity."
What produces the best power?
Different question.
What filters the best while producing the best power?
Question #3
The P08 power curve is indistinguishable from, say K&N. 1% is statistically identical. The filtration, if true, seems to be substantially better - but is that micron size of particle what we are most concerned about? And, does it do better on smaller particles? More questions than answers at this point.
Aldous Huxley ended Brave New World with the sentence: "You pays your money and you takes your choice."
The terminology is too broad and need defining to provide an informed answer. What is "best power" ? peak power? best power curve? engine installed in the bike? engine alone on a test bench?
Filters by nature are restrictors which by definition means they restrict airflow. if you end up with a better power curve with the filter it means there is a fuel mapping issue and the restriction is assisting in minimising that. If you get no net loss in peak power (after optimised tuning) with a filter then it means that the intake systems flow limiting restriction is downstream somewhere like the throttle body, port shape or size or valve size.
If you are after pure peak power and best power curve then an unfiltered airbox with an effective atmospheric delivery system devoid of size and shape restrictions dictated by limitations of the available space will be best.After that its all compromise.
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1 hour ago, ScuRoo said:
Jeezus... just how clean do you wanna be??
Us rufty-tufty bikers seem happy enuff riding thru hundreds of miles of countryside filtering out super phosphate billowing out from farmers spreaders, caught behind sheep trucks swallowing their aromatic trails, marveling at the sights and smells of burn-backs and bushfires, the sickly sweet whiffs on the wind of roadkill rotting roos wrinkling our noses, grain harvesters, hay baling, wild pollen laden eucalyptus bushland, smacking into stinging fly’s and bees, or dodging lazy crows at 100mph and inhaling ancient dusty sky trails of legendary dead dingo dongers from Arnhem Land... only to pull into some favourite Quinnie for a greasy burger, long-awaited cold pint and a lung filling fag!
We’re not bothered whacking sodden great big filters over our snoz’s so I should think our pussy little bikes are damn lucky!
Why are we happy to concede that factories do cut costs by installing lesser quality shocks, forks etc., than what’s best available then violently knee jerk react that their filtration choices are quality driven and not cheap price determined?
Dogma be damned.
That's 3 min 29 seconds of my life I'm never getting back.
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12 minutes ago, po18guy said:
I'm about ready to post you round-trip air fare.
Ha, My bags are packed:)
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I spent 2 weeks in Seattle taking delivery of a company Jet in 2001 and I had all but 1 day of sunny skies and nice weather. The locals couldn't believe my weather luck.
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43 minutes ago, Chuck said:
Yeah, some sort of vent tube, not standard. Needs Roper plate. $3500.
A vent tube running externally to atmosphere instead of into the airbox rings alarm bells for me to some extent. Bespeaks of excess oil ending up in the airbox which in turn suggests a heavy breathing engine. I'd like to know what the modifier was trying to achieve here. It could of course just be a Muppet owner without a clue I suppose.
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41 minutes ago, docc said:
I have never heard that term "labyrinth" filter ( now, there are LOTS of Pet'es terms of never heard, but the rest are generally, er . . . "discriptives"
). I have heard the K&N types called "oiled gauze" and was taught here a long time ago they are not "foam." I have listened to and read so much of the debate about them and somehow concluded their downfall is neglect. So, I service (clean/oil) mine about every 12,000 miles/20.000 km, but am now having second (fifth?) thoughts about returning to paper (if I can find a ready source).
Otherwise, I have always been fond of the stock airbox in any one of its natural settings . . .
There are 2 threads to this docc. Firstly a well designed airbox is designed to harness the natural intake resonance of the engine and feed a cool laminar flow of air to the throttle body. Forget about ram effect for the majority of riding even on the track as it has a minor effect. These days even street bikes use this resonate effect together with ecu controlled variable length inlets to smooth out the torque curve. The V11 also uses intake and airbox resonance to advantage.
Secondly is filtering. I read a long time ago a comparison of elements of different styles and from memory the conclusion was pretty much the same as for oil filters. less restriction means less effective filtering. So at the end of the day you get the choice of free flowing and reduced filtering capability or less free flowing and more effective filtering. You get to choose.
I used to ride bevel drive Ducati's around for a few years with just wire screened intake trumpets. The Nikasil cylinders and pistons used to be ok but the valves and valve seats used to take a bit of a hammering. Back in those days a std Ducati filter was a tin box and concertina hose for each carb and just didnt look cool at all, before the days of inlet resonance tuning. As soon as manufacturers started taking the induction side seriously I gave up on such silliness.
Personally I'd stick with the paper element and leave the horrible messy oily gauze thing for lawn mowers and such. Of course the only reason they came into being at all was for dirt bikes back in the late 60's where you couldn't be changing a paper filter after every ride. You needed something economical and easy for the owner to service and being most were competition bikes the manufacturers didnt need to worry about warranty claims for high wear rate. It all grew from there.
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Removing the airbox on a modern bike and going to pods is about the equivalent of hacksawing your header pipes off 4 inches from the port. People still do it though.
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1 hour ago, po18guy said:
True! My lowly, ancient EX500A1 (1987) has a 56.5 inch wheelbase and bars that rise about 4" above the triples. I am that 6-02/190 "mythical" rider and that bike just plain fits me. Few bikes that I have thrown a leg over have given me that impression. Of memory, the Victory V92SC, the Buell XB12 - for two polar opposites, and as I recently discovered, the Ballabio. Many bikes, especially at shows, have "the look" but not "the feel". Since I actually ride the bikes, I prefer them to have both, but the feel is paramount. The V11 sound, "filtered" through the Staintune cans, is simply icing on the cake. It is a manly bike, if one is allowed that term these days, and requires some muscle, skill and involvement on the rider's part. No droning commuter bikes need apply.
As am I:)
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3 hours ago, po18guy said:
I picked up the idea from magazine content such as Cycle World, Cycle, Car and Driver, etc. in the 80s and onward. From the interwebz:
"Three years after purchase, every new car has to go through an expensive inspection process, and once every two years after that. Furthermore, vehicles older than 10 years have to pass the inspection every year. As a result, most car owners in Japan write off their cars after 10 years and buy new ones.Jun 14, 1998"
Collector motorcycles? Nothing that I could find after searching several ways.
If you live in NSW Australia after 3 years from new every vehicle needs to have a roadworthy inspection every year including a braking efficiency test. Its a real PITA.
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Carbon fibre.......21st century chrome:)
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1 hour ago, pete roper said:
If there was one thing I'd like to see made punishable by tarring and feathering it's throwing away air boxes and fitting 'Pods'. Pod filters, especially labyrinth filters like K & N's, are the work of the devil and should be ruthlessly stamped out!
I agree Pete. Losing the airbox was never an option for me.
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3 hours ago, docc said:
Nicely done, mate! Love how you set up the intakes to cool the fuel filter and R/R!
The determination to retain the airbox and sidecovers really impresses/
You should be right-ready to ship her in for the next (US) South'n Spine Raid!
Yes docc the math behind the cooling airflow was complicated:)
Cant stand the idea of ditching a decently working airbox, dumbest move ever.
Maybe I'll get there one day.
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I'm calling the airbox done.The modified area could be better aesthetically but this plastic is almost impossible to finish nicely. I might make some little 1/4 moon 1mm thick ally plates to cover the modified area painted black and attached by some small PK screws to make it look nicer but once the side covers go on I doubt you'll notice the area.
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On 12/28/2019 at 4:01 PM, Twin AH said:
Yup me thinks that might be the way Rox.
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3 hours ago, vtwins4life said:
The Shop called me today. They have never taken apart a Guzzi diff so they quoted me a range of 2-10 hours to do the work, and I'm on the hook for any wrong parts they order.
Hard Pass....guess I'll just live with the tall gearing....
VT4L
Gee they sound like professionals that know their stuff..........Not
You could always ask Pete Roper if he can source you a T5 bevel box and maybe check it over for you and ship it. I reccon shipping would be about $100us
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8 hours ago, Chuck said:
Attaboy.
The material looks like 
glass filled polypropylene that we used to mold high strength parts out of at GM. When making prototypes, I used much the same process. I had a big hunker soldering iron that would make (sort of) a bead that I filled with the same material.
Ok Chuck interesting. No fibres here though. The airbox material is quite strange in that it doesnt actually melt so you cant melt the base material and combine it with a filler rod like welding you need to abandon trying to melt the base material and use the filler rod like bronze welding or brazing or soldering. If you put a hot iron against it it will eventually produce a black liquid which at first I thought was melted material but when it dried it was rock hard brittle. I think it was just oils being excreted under high heat. If you hit it with a heat gun on full temp it just goes all rubbery but wont actually melt, but it does float in water. I'm still thinking its a cross linked Polyethylene but for anyone wanting to join it the method I have used seems really sound.
BTW docc I think the inlet trumpets will be the same material, I have an old butchered one I'll material test when I get a chance. I've done hours of reading on plastic in the last week and its a very complex and involved topic. Pretty soon most of an internal combustion engine will be made from it with lots of serious research being done on using it for crankshafts,engine blocks,rods and even exhaust systems. Weight reduction being the primary aim. presently intake manifolds,rocker covers,cooling system fittings and oil pans are the major components usually made from a nylon base material but within 10 years it seems most of the engine will be plastic.
My wife now understands why I'm lying awake at 3am most nights
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11 minutes ago, po18guy said:
Oddly (maybe not), my airbox lid has no recycling symbol on it. Perhaps even more strange is that it carries the 'e11' mark, which seems to be the UK certification of motor vehicle safety and environmental acceptability, issued to the UK by the EU authorities. The part itself appears to be 'blow molded', in that the outer dimensions are controlled and texturized by the mold, while the material thickness fluctuates somewhat and interior dimensions are smooth and less consistent. Such a manufacturing process tends to favor a thermoplastic - but in recent decades, many new and hybrid types of plastic have entered the market. So, back to the start: who knows? Acerbis may not even remember...
As well, the box itself may consist of an entirely different material, formed differently. :shrug:
Acerbis got back to me and said to contact Guzzi as it was made to their specs. Should have realised that would;d be the case. Anyway its sorted now with a strong and decent result by lets call it airless plastic brazing. Polyethylene rods used as a hot glue. Not welded but closer to brazed.
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1 hour ago, po18guy said:
If it is made of the same stuff as the lid, I have a spare which I can check and advise of the type of plastic it is. From the pic which Paul Minnaert posted above, it appears that it might be glass-filled nylon, which can be bonded with liquid epoxy, JB Weld (steel-reinforced epoxy) or similar. If it did not melt and ball up on the hole saw, it is probably a thermo-setting plastic.
No fibres present in the plastic and JB steel weld can be picked off with your fingernail even with a well prepared surface. It would be interesting to know what it is exactly but the Polyethylene welding rod seems to work which is a recognised process for cross linked poly, although as I said its not really welding more hot gluing. Been reading up on high surface energy plastics, interesting stuff. I tried several adhesives I know work well and all of them were a failure. Fortunately the fill piece doesn't have a big job to do just support about 1/3 of the seal and keep the dust out.
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40 minutes ago, po18guy said:
Hmmm. Some late-night musing here, as the snow falls. It's either a thermoplastic (weldable) or a thermo-setting plastic (bondable). Have you had it off recently to see the recycling mark molded into it? Or, do you have the bits trimmed off? It either melts to the soldering iron or you can epoxy a like plastic to it. If a local plastics supply has a sheet of similar stuff, you could make up a ring which would be concentric with the intake boot,covering the gap and appearing somewhat "factory."
No identification of any sort. I have now found it can be well bonded by using a Polyethylene welding rod as a hot melt glue. Gives a strong bond. The airbox material itself doesnt melt but the rod bonds it well.
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So here's the airbox task. Hole needs to be raised 16mm or there abouts and the bottom filled in. The airbox looks like its made of cross linked Polyethylene which isnt weldable....naturally:)Typically I just looked at it and thought it was. I've learned quite a bit about plastic in the last week and I now have a plan.
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38 minutes ago, knumbnutz said:
A couple of nice points I took away from the article-
Swapping the helical gears in the gearbox for straight cut. Cam is good enough for racing. Valvetrain weakest link. Almost 140hp at around 8500rpm was enough to win against more powerful or lighter bikes because of the power delivery/torque curve. Ride it a different way to get the most out of it (in racing).
One of the most interesting features I gathered from the article is the lack of drag in the drivetrain compared to a chain drive.
Always good to hear from a racer that competed on a budget DIY bike and came up against the odds - a winner. It's a marvelous achievement and one of the admirable features that I loved in the Britten story.
You need to read this sort of article with a large dose of Lambrusco. The MGS-01 for instance doesn't use any helical gears in the std gearbox anywhere, just like the V11 gearbox its derived from. A chain has less losses than a shaft and bevel gear assembly no matter what Gianfranco says.
Its a bit like the Britten story, somewhat larger than the actuality. I love the Britten and its genius creator but the reality is in the cold hard light of day it was slower in lap times than a 600 Supersport of its day.
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4 hours ago, Emeraldv11 said:
Hi Mark,
After Recently fitting lowered and advanced pegs i had the same problem with my brake lever this is how i extended it: simple and adjustable.
8 mm aluminium plate with a 10 mm s/s coach bold as a pedal. a milling machine is handy for the groove, but by no means essential.
Hope it Helps.Greetings from (very wild) Cork tonight.
Luc
Or one of these and you get a folding tip as well. Just position it fwd instead of dropped like I have it.
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What flows best?: stock intake air box or two small aftermarket filters?
in Technical Topics
Posted
Looks much like the one fitted to my bike except full length and sealed to contain oil for the race regs. Riding around on the road they tend to collect lots of road rubbish off the back tyre even if you drill holes in the bottom.
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