Scud

All the motorcycle parts are officially moved out of the house. I fit the engine to test the clutch operation, and it works, so I'm pleased about that. It's gotta come back out for paint though. I couldn't resist doing a quick preview. Plus, I had to "store" all those parts somewhere... So glad I bought new stainless hardware. Nothing but stainless would work with the Candy-Apple.

http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=38&products_id=56 A bunch of Ducatis used the same levers, so your chances of finding a used original might be pretty good. There's a list here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19514&p=211559

nobles - that's a good technique. Maybe you should also post it in the Veglia thread so more people can find it later. moto - it's easier on this side, because there's a huge shelf full of crap on the other side. Seriously, I haven't tried it the other way. I just got the stand with this project. I did notice that the lower porkchop nuts were kind of beat up from the stand. So I split some old rubber hose and made pads for the Vs that contact the bolts. And... I got the backend together so she's standing on her own two feet again... and I got some more stuff off my bench. Ironically, this is about the same state of assembly as the photo you picked from near the start of the project.

Could we get a long-term-test report? How is the paint holding up? And what kind of paint did you use?

Here's a link to a most-excellent how-to on opening the gauges. http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16407 Maybe I will revisit this later. It looks like a good evening or rainy-day job.

I think there would be room with the stock hugger. If you want to remove your seat lock, just file some grooves in the security screws - then you can take if off with a screwdriver.

Ha - reminds me of what JB said recently about "learned restraint" being useful. And I've got lots of other stuff to do - like strip and paint the engine.

And the gauges are finally off my bench... Bars and gauges "before" and "after" with original clip-ons re-installed: Powercoated: fairing bracket, top triple clamp, warning light cover, reservoir brackets New: clear plastic warning light cover, reservoirs (donated from Scura), grips, stainless fasteners, and another fresh aguila. Let there be no more spare keys bouncing on the aguila... And hydraulic systems flushed with Motul DOT 5.1 fluid. I seriously thought about trying to open the gauges to paint the needles... but that looks like quite a hassle. I found two methods: one to peel the folded metal away from the back of the bevel ring, and the other to cut the case off with a dremel and then reattach it.

Sounds like a good adventure. Congratulations. Do we get peek?

Like Chuck said, look for wear. The footpegs and foot levers (if original) don't lie. Are they polished from many miles of wear - shifting and braking? If yes... lots of miles, if no... believe the odometer. On the V11s, and I assume the same for the Jackal, there are many dabs of yellow paint where things were "set" at the factory. If the dabs of yellow paint are undisturbed, that's another low-mileage clue.

Harper's shows it available with a note: "NOS, limited supply."

Well Chuck, I've got some motivation, because I need to clear a bunch of parts out of my oldest daughter's room before she comes home for spring break. If I get the gauges back on and the hydraulic reservoirs filled, then I can put the fairing back on. That's the biggest "parts-in-house" violation I have going right now.

Time to go riding...

I finally finished up the transmission. The whole misadventure started because I thought I would pre-emptively replace the pawl spring. As it turns out, that spring was seriously fatigued and probably about ready to break. Seals arrived recently, so I was able to get the transmission back together and installed. Also put in the Hyperpro shock, since I moved the Ohlins from this bike over to my red LeMans, which had the Hyperpro on it. Soooo glad to get the transmission off my bench. ...and a shiny new aguila.

1 - I think the master cylinder piston may have been extending too far, because the too-thick friction plates would push the little cup forward. The cup will gradually move backwards as the friction material wears. The complete pushrod, bearing and spacer assembly is now 0.5mm longer than stock. I think this compensates for the extra material and is why the "washer trick" did end up fully releasing the clutch. 2 - I was trying to figure out what you meant here. I put in new friction plates and intermediate plate, but I re-used the pressure plate and the starter ring (both of which contact the friction plates). These did not have any noticeable lip on them. Correct. I dabbed some gear oil on the bearing and all the other little parts. Everything to the right of the O-ring in the above photo also gets lubricated by the normal operation of the transmission. After all this, I regret buying the SD-TEC clutch plates. According to Gordon at MG Cycle, they've been the most long-lasting and trouble-free plates he's carried. However, they just recently manufactured a batch that was too-thick. So... I'd avoid those until they run a correct batch. If, at some point, I feel the need to pull the engine out again, I might try putting a 5-speed RAM in there (since I have a spare clutch hub to make it fit the six-speed).

Time for a little update on life with this LeMans... Solved an apparently complex electrical problem with nothing but new, tight-fitting relays. Details here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19777 Looking back at the previous posts, I was a bit optimistic about the clutch... but I think I'm on the right track now. Details here: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19808 And onto the fun stuff... I put the Ohlins shock on today, which came along with my Champagne project. I'll move the Hyperpro over to that project. I gave it a little test ride and the shock is an improvement over the Hyperpro. The shock has a remote pre-load adjuster. And what a perfect mounting plate Moto Guzzi provided (if you remove the helmet lock.) I'll just drill another hole (the adjuster has 2 holes) and get some stainless hardware. I mean seriously, that space is perfect... I can imagine the conversation at the factory... "...and this is where we put the pre-load adjuster." "Nah, who would want that? Put a helmet lock instead." While I was up to my elbows in clutch slave cylinder, I took the opportunity to install the powdercoated lower subframe that I've had in waiting. The take-off had some rusty spots. Also got a pair of Dunlop Roadsmart 3 tires in a fun trade - but the current tires probably have a couple thousand miles left on them. Eager to try out the Dunlops.

Thats cool, whenever you get a chance. Ciao Chance. My Harpers order arrived today, so I tapped the seal in. It is the same as the one I removed.

Ok, ride report. I did a 4,000 foot ride. That's net elevation increase... took 120 miles round trip to do it. I followed a red, white, and gold Aprilia Dorsodura for while. That is fine looking and sounding supermotard. Then he got aggressive with passing over double-yellow lines... bye-bye. The thicker stack of material, including the new bearing and extra spacer (washer) has definitely released the drag on the clutch. I can get into neutral easily at any time. And this is the first time since I installed the new clutch that I have heard the ching-ching-ching with the clutch pulled in, so I know the plates are moving freely when the clutch is in. There was no ching-ching-ching before. Shifts are improved, though I still need a full squeeze on the clutch lever and I miss shifts if I get lazy. However, the make-up shift (following the miss) goes in better - it previously made painful re-engagement noises after missed shifts. I suspect that I may still have a little problem with the pre-selector, as I had a hard time with a few bits when I rebuilt it. That can wait... All in all - totally ridable now. I just have be precise in my shifts. This is difficult coming off my other bikes, because they are all easy-shifters and I can get away with sloppy/lazy shifting (even the Scura). I think the key problem here is that the clutch plates are too thick. It seems that I could probably have put in two spacers instead of one. But I think I'll just ride it for a while and see how it goes. Maybe a little plate-wear will improve things even more.

Well, I decided that trying to wear the friction discs out was not my style... so in we go. Fortunately, you only have to remove a few parts to get access to the clutch slave... such as the lower subframe... And here is an interesting development. Thickness original (2 washers and throwout bearing) that I removed: 3.88 mm Thickness of new (captured bearing and 1 washer): 3.48 mm So that's 0.4mm thinner, and I figure the clutch plates are 0.6 mm too thick, which pushes the clutch button (and pushrod and bearing) 0.6mm further toward the flywheel... which means the clutch slave starts 0.6mm overextended. So now I have to make up 0.4 + 0.6 = 1.0 mm. And the washers I removed are 0.91... And to top it off, I was actually helping my daughter with her math homework in the garage while working on this. Who says you don't use algebra in real life? Note the difference in the new bearing (lower) from the old. It's captured into a plate so it does not need a backing washer. It's 2 pieces, vs. 3 for the original. I installed the parts as lined up on the bottom, with one extra washer. Before removing the slave and piston, I put the bike in second gear. With the clutch pulled in, I could turn the driveshaft by hand, but I could tell there was resistance. After installing the thicker stack of stuff with the new bearing, I could turn the driveshaft freely. I am cautiously optimistic and gonna go put it back together.

Send me a PM with your address. In exchange I want a transmission input gear tool... Oh wait, you already gave me your extra one when you loaned me tools - and you wouldn't even accept payment for shipping. You get a "free" used clutch slave.

I also thought that a small amount of wear could fix the issue. I think I have about 500 miles on the new clutch - including one short ride where I tried slipping the clutch a lot - but I don't like riding that way. Adding a washer = 5 minutes. Getting to the point where I can add a washer = a few hours (plus reassembly = a day). And it just seems so close to totally releasing. Maybe I'll put the bike on the front wheel chock (and that against a wall) and try to bed the friction material as you described. In fact, that sounds like fun... maybe a few smoky burnouts in the garage while I'm at it. I will have to be very strategic about the timing of this "maintenance procedure." On a serious note, that also seems risky... like I could engage the clutch and lose control of the bike. I rode it to work today. Maybe I'll abuse the clutch on the way home - but if the problem is really 0.6mm, that's going to take a long time to wear off.

Here are the current symptoms (none of which were problems before the new clutch): Slight drag: with the bike in gear and clutch pulled in, I can move the rear wheel by hand and I can push the bike. But this is just a little bit harder than when in it's neutral. Missing shifts: Most of my shifts are excellent, but I have a recurring problem with 3-4 and 4-3. I frequently miss the upshift and the downshift, which yields a false neutral, followed by an unpleasant gear-mesh noise on shifting out of the false neutral (up or down). Difficulty getting into neutral: If I come to a full stop in gear, it is difficult to find neutral. It requires more effort than it should, and mostly toggles between 1st and 2nd. This is not a problem with the engine off, only while running. Clutch lever release point: I have to pull the clutch all the way to the handlebar to get release. Here's what I've done recently: Replaced clutch friction discs with SD-TEC plates sourced from MG Cycle. I think this could be the source of my problem. When I ordered, Gordon at MG told me they were a little thicker than normal and sometimes cause clutch to not fully disengage. I notice that MG has recently updated their product description to indicate that the plates are 8.3mm, compared to 8.0mm factory spec. That means 2 over-thick plates adds 0.6mm to the clutch stack. Replaced intermediate plate and springs. Rebuilt shift pre-selector (springs, polish, etc.) and added Lucky-Phil-Chuck magic shift extender. I drained the Redline Shockproof Heavy last night and replaced with synthetic gear oil. No chunks of metal, but there was a little metal powder on the drain plug magnet. This seemed normal - in fact, it was relieving after the bad noises I've been hearing. Thinking about next steps: I have a new throwout bearing (I didn't replace it when I did the clutch). Gordon suggests that I use an extra washer between the throwout bearing and the piston (that would be three total washers instead of two). Supposedly, this is the equivalent of having a longer pushrod and may compensate for the additional thickness of the clutch parts. He said that has helped with manual (cable) clutches, but has never tried it with a hydraulic clutch. And he wants me to tell him if it works... which makes me the test-monkey. So - It's kind of big job to get at the clutch slave cylinder. What do you guys think about the chances of this working? Some relevant pics.... This is the SD-TEC clutch as currently installed. These are the clutch pushrod assemblies from other bikes. EDIT: I had LGC plates, not SD-TEC. They are about the same thickness as OEM plates. See next page for measurements.

As for the clutch tool, I don't think the diameter is as important as getting the teeth in the clutch plates aligned. I use this tool from MG Cycle. The three points that go into the teeth are the key. http://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=80&products_id=2618 I'd offer to loan it, but I think I'm going to need to use it soon.

Let's keep Czakky's description of the current problem (from 2-21 post above) in mind. What could account for the fact that it "purrs like a kitten" at 2,000 RPM, but has hard starts and shuts down off-throttle with a backfire? I don't know the answer - just trying to make sure we are asking the right questions. I have a pair of injectors, which I would gladly send to Wisconsin in exchange for some cheese. But... can injectors work well at some RPMs but not others?

Or at least rotate the relays you currently have and make sure they are all making good contact. I had three seemingly unrelated problems solved, as if by magic, by putting in new relays (but one that I removed was loose). There will be a logical solution. Chances are it will seem obvious once we find it. How's the condition of the rubber caps or hoses on the throttle bottle vacuum tubes?