jrt Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 One really serious thing to consider- Carl Allison and a few others found out the hard way that if the V11 crashes nose-in, then the frame is very prone to being bent, even cracking at the steering head. In light of that, maybe a Tonti frame would be a better tool for the job, so to speak? Maybe one of you knowledgable sorts would know...are the V11 pork chops the "weakest link"? No, I don't think so. I've not read of any reports about damaged chops. The weak part is up where the spine connects to the steering tube. Here's the thread I was thinking about (sorry-the pictures are gone): http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9339&st=0&p=107308&hl=crash&fromsearch=1entry107308 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Now to tyres; even though Sanders used conti trail attacks, I'm after more all-out traction to power on through - if fine sand is starting to suck the bike down into it, I've gotta make sure I can keep momentum! Are you sure? On fine sand do you not want wide smooth tyres for traction, rather than narrower, heavily treaded tyres? You don't want to dig down into the sand, which is what knobblies will do. I don't have experience of fine desert sand, but I'm extrapolating from other off-road situations, where momentum is won or lost according to the appropriate tyre tread/section/pressure/height etc. While tyres are important, technique is the other, and very critical factor, when off-road. Again, I don't know about fine desert sand – maybe speed is simply the key thing there? What does the literature, or the specialist forums, advise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 For sand the best technique weight rearward and keep the front light using power. The V11 has rear weight bias (may help) I think your limited by tyre sizes rears seam to stop at 150 width but thats fine for a big BMW or KTM 990 although they can chew them out fast. I've done direct comparison between TKC80, Mitas E09, and a Metzler sahara with the metz and mitas on a par and both outlasting the TKC, the metz gave surprising grip considering the less aggressive tread pattern compared to the e09 try the mitas website they have an E10 for big bikes. Another problem you may have is to run sand its best to have low tyre pressures. Most dirt bikes run rim locks to stop the tyre spinning on the rim. All the devices I've seen to secure the tyre involve drilling a hole or several in the rim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luhbo Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 ...http://postimage.org/image/qkpe0ds4/..... This exhaust looks like a real good idea. The bike should hardly dig in deeper as up to this line, and then at once you have two nice grips to push it out again About the frame (should you really worry about this point): in 2005 I sent my V11 straight into the crash barrier, sliding though, nevertheless I had to pay for two segments and one support - besides a mark on one fork leg, a slightly damaged front rim and equally "modified" steering stops the V11 and especially the frame behaved as if this was it's daily business. The front fender was completely shattered of course - and for your purposes is a bit too short anyway. That's one part I'd replace for such a trip. hubert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Something to practice with. Go to your local golf course. Ride your bike out into a sandtrap. Do a spinout , kill the engine then get off the bike and push it out of the trap then the rest of the way off the course to a paved surface. Then put the bike on the sidestand, walk away from the bike, turn around and ask yourself, "Am I really up to this" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gstallons Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Something to practice with. Go to your local golf course. Ride your bike out into a sandtrap. Do a spinout , kill the engine then get off the bike and push it out of the trap then the rest of the way off the course to a paved surface. Then put the bike on the sidestand, walk away from the bike, turn around and ask yourself, "Am I really up to this" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Something to practice with. Go to your local golf course. Ride your bike out into a sandtrap. Do a spinout , kill the engine then get off the bike and push it out of the trap then the rest of the way off the course to a paved surface. Then put the bike on the sidestand, walk away from the bike, turn around and ask yourself, "Am I really up to this" ? LOL. The last time I did donuts (round-d-rounds or whatever) on a golf course, I was chased off unceremoniously. Jeez, I was a dumb teenager. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 Why the preoccupation with soft sand? There's loads of offroad going in Morocco without having to do soft sand... ...and it's not as if a lardy great 1200GS is ideally suited to the stuff either, so I don't expect it'll be a priority target unless ScuRoo's mates are some kind of masochistic bodybuilders? There's none til you get down South anyhow & I reckon most people are only tackling it cos it's the only way to get to the other side - ScuRoo:How long you going for & what route you thinking of? A consideration re tyres: Depends on route you're taking but whatever, there's some road miles to be done & dedicated offroad tyres/heavy bike/hot tarmac = lots of wear. Long time ago I did long distance trials on R80GS on Michelin T61's, involved motorway treks front & back - great off road tyres but you could see them disappearing before your eyes every stop. I went to Southern Morocco 2-up w/camping gear, did loads of offroad no problems - on a bog stock T3 on road tyres - had a great time, but then I was just pootling around - didn't go to race GS's! It's a fantastic country. Sights & sounds I'll never forget. North can be a bit heavy duty - South is more relaxed & "foreign". That was 20-odd years ago, dunno how it's changed. I'll dig out some pix. KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScuRoo Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Atlas mountains for sure but we are going for 2 weeks so could end up where-ever. I'm looking to make some well thought-out forum suggested changes to help my bike cope rather than just leave it unprepared. Clearly, the deepest of sand-drifts won't be hunted out for conquest - but if I come across a couple of golf-course bunkers I'll give 'em a bash. You're right about the tyres KB, however I'd be relaxed enough to sacrifice a fit for purpose set solely for this holiday. Any suggestions in this department? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScuRoo Posted January 5, 2011 Share Posted January 5, 2011 Aah, here we go fella's... Would this V11 give it a go off-road? Crazy nutter! Ahee hee he... My link My link My link My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted January 5, 2011 Author Share Posted January 5, 2011 Atlas mountains for sure but we are going for 2 weeks so could end up where-ever. How you getting to Morocco - Santander thru Spain to Gibralter, France/Spain? Have any of you been before? We took ferry to Santander, rode thru Spain to Gibralter then ferry to Ceuta. Rode S to Fes - Er-Rachidia & Erfoud, W to Ouarzazate & S to Zagora, then back through Marrakech/Casablanca & back up to Santander in (I think) around 3 weeks. N has a bit of hassle - avoid contact with drugs, or following strangers up blind alleys... I'd recommend getting down to the South if you can - S of the High Atlas - it's where the desert starts; the colours, the people, you get a sense of being on the edge of Africa. S of Erfoud you can find dunes (Erg Chebbi). Marrakech is quite a place. Todra Gorges worth visiting. In May I guess there may be some water running in the mountains, we went later in the year & had none. KB ...Would this V11 give it a go off-road? .... Built for looks - wouldn't go near sand or loose stuff with those open intakes....& you'd be on the cords before you got half way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Do Trailwings come in V11 sizes? That would be a reasonable mix of road/off road. Or something similar- I can't recall what came on the SV650 (or SV1000??), but it was mostly street oriented. Although- the disclaimer- I've never been to Morocco or that area, so I don't have a clear vision of what the roads are like. If hard-pack, then street tires should be fine. Frankly, your tires (tyres) won't be the limiting factor here. Baldini makes a good point about the intake- make sure you have some filtration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 If hard-pack, then street tires should be fine. Frankly, your tires (tyres) won't be the limiting factor here. . Same. While I haven't been in Morocco/desert either, I still think that fitting a V11 with off road or trail tyres would be unnecessary and the wrong thing for a trip like this, giving much more downsides than upside. Gearing can't be lowered on a V11 either, like on a chain and sprocket bike: limiting climbing and off road ability, esp when laden. Fit good touring tyres and keep the laden weight down. The V11 is fine at scooting over slightly rough ground, like most bikes. Fit a sump guard by all means but I don't know that it's crucial. Rather, I'd be avoiding driving (riding) into any sump/chassis bashing obstacles. The V11 is frail in a lot of areas. Broken brackets and levers (and springs) are commonplace. In my opinion, the weakest part of the V11 is the frame/engine support and of course the heads & spark plugs. The critical engine support is weak: more to the point, the engine mounting areas are very weak. I say 'engine support' but of course the point really is that the engine itself is an integral part of the whole structural support system. Some of us know from experience that when a V11 falls over, in my case laden with touring gear, the shock of the (static) bike weight alone is enough to crack the timing chest. That could be the end of any trip as the crack results in heavy oil loss when the engine is running. Other areas of casing aren't the strongest either, so fitting off road tyres in order to go haring around off road multiplies the likelihood of grief arising. Dropping a V11 off road and far from a spares supplier will require some good remedial bodging skills to keep the show on the road. The weakness of the frame has been much written about; I'm highlighting the weakness of the engine/transmission casings; and everyone knows about the vulnerability of the heads and plugs as well as hand and foot levers and their brackets. Given all of that, I think it's better to see the tyres as a safety device. Let them limit the terrain traversed, rather than get into situations where the bike frame and casings are going to receive heavy shocks and impacts or fall over. Note that I say V11 above, rather than Guzzi. The V11 is probably the worst of all Guzzis to take off road, as it's structurally the weakest. The famous Tontis that have been hammered around mountains and deserts are different beasts altogether. I've been criticised here for having my Griso mildly off-road, but again, it's a lot more robust than the V11. Carrying spare hand levers is a must, of course, but also consider the foot levers. For rough terrain journeys, it could be sensible to carry spares or even replace the weak cast stock items with stronger levers that don't crack apart when you look at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrt Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I concur. Good point about the gearshift/brake levers. Are there any folding ones out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I concur. Good point about the gearshift/brake levers. Are there any folding ones out there? Not sure if there are folding levers for V11. There are for Breva, Griso etc. I was thinking of the billet levers, or at least carry stock spares, and fit a set of the various billet foot levers that are available. Not to be pessimistic, but just thinking: another thing to watch out for in desert/off road conditions would be the V11's infamous rear brake calliper. It needs to be kept cleaned as it collects dirt so easily, hanging upside down. Then it sticks and literally melts. Then it doesn't matter if your foot lever is broken or not. So Baldini, is this what you were thinking when you kicked this off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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