Chuck Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I'm still betting on hammering causing it from too loose a valve adjustment. Either set too loose, or set properly, and rapid cam wear. It takes a *lot* to mar a hardened surface.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJPR01 Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 Another idea...using a stethoscope - can you tell if the noise is more towards the bottom or the top of the engine, i.e. sump vs. valves area...sometimes sound/noise travels and is deceptive on where it is originating. Hopefully it's not something as silly as a 10 m wrench wedged into the sump and getting ground down somewhere...thinking the oil change might show any filings if there were something down there already being eaten away. If I were a betting man, which I'm not...I'm sure Chuck is closer to the solution than I am...but guessing is fun anyway...maybe the combination of ideas will lead to the light bulb moment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 sometimes sound/noise travels and is deceptive on where it is originating. Very true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footgoose Posted May 19, 2017 Share Posted May 19, 2017 I found some RaceCo specs at those tolerances and Meinolf seems also to get good results with looser settings. As I understand it (and I'm open to being corrected) loose settings are also good for extreme heat and I do sometimes venture off into deserts and mountains in the summer. So here's the fun news... she moved under her own power today for the first time in several years. Shifted smoothly up and down through all 6 gears - but I only lugged it up and down the street at low RPMs. Idles and purrs along very nicely at low RPMs. So... it seems we almost have a motorcycle... and would you look at that red stiletto? Without any nasty silver clutter around it to distract from it's shapeliness... It's still clacky, especially on the right. I checked all the stuff that Tinus and Chuck suggested and did not see any problems. The valves were still at the clearances I had set. So I poured some oil in the pushrod area and squirted it around everything else in the heads that still looked dry. Started it - still noisy. Set the valves to .006 In and .008 Ex. Started again and here is the video. It shows the LH for a couple seconds then goes to the RH, which seems to be where the noise is coming from. http://vid1128.photobucket.com/albums/m492/timscudder/Champagne%20LeMans/IMG_6152.mp4 I think it's a little quieter than before, but I still don't like the noise. I must say it was fun seeing it run with the covers off. That alone was worth the effort. this thing is Screaming for a black Laverda fairing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobleswood Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 I'm going to throw this out there cos the sound is very similar to what I was chasing down with my Griso. A loud tappet like noise on the RH side. Following a suggestion from the guys on GrisoGhetto I took off the sump & spacer which is where the oil pick ups & plumbing lurks. There I found a torn gasket that would seal the oil gallery that feeds the top end. So creating a drop in pressure. To orientate heres the bottom of the engine Worth a look 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
footgoose Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 I'm going to throw this out there cos the sound is very similar to what I was chasing down with my Griso. A loud tappet like noise on the RH side. Following a suggestion from the guys on GrisoGhetto I took off the sump & spacer which is where the oil pick ups & plumbing lurks. There I found a torn gasket that would seal the oil gallery that feeds the top end. So creating a drop in pressure. To orientate heres the bottom of the engine Worth a look hmmmm ..I like the sound of this Scud. Maybe a combo of this idea and Chucks. Like him, I'd like to see the corresponding push rod surface to that rocker. I watched the vid several times (maybe a poor recording), but tho it is def louder on the right, it ain't That much louder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud Posted May 20, 2017 Author Share Posted May 20, 2017 A champagne LeMans fairing is waiting to be installed. All three oil sump gaskets are new. 1 lower and 2 uppers with a Roper Plate in between. For reference, my red LeMans had low oil pressure for a while and I finally determined that the tabs on the upper sump gasket were missing. With new gaskets, pressure went up. However, it did not make any noise. I'm gonna go clean the garage, need to re-group. I bet I will find some pushrods and rockers in a box. Maybe I'll give her one more chance before turning her into a clothes rack for a month. I'm also thinking back on the project and realize that I never detached or flushed the oil radiator. I wonder if that could have got gummed up from sitting (the tranny sure did). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 The reason an 8V Griso engine will make a noise if the oil pressure is low due to a ripped gasket is that insufficient is being delivered to prime the cam chain tensioner plungers so they can't tension the chains and then the chains themselves flog about whacking the tensioner blades about. The pushrod motors don't have a hydraulic tensioner so it's not an issue. If the pressure drops you'll get the light followed by the 'Dogga-Dogga' noise and wailing and gnashing of teeth! Try rotating the rocker spindles on the offending side through 180 degrees and re-setting the clearances to 4 & 6 thou and see if that helps. Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nobleswood Posted May 20, 2017 Share Posted May 20, 2017 I wasn't certain of the difference berween the V11 engine & the later Griso engines, but threw the idea out there. Pete's explination closed off that possibility though. Looks like you had covered that potential problem with new gaskets anyhow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRD Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Hi Folks, late to the game as I have been busy preparing the Norge for the upcoming trip to Nova Scotia. Scud, have you done a compression check on the bike? First thing I thought of after listening to the video is quite similar to a cracked piston. Possibly between the ring grooves? I know not what you wanted to hear but a possibility? Jerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gelos Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 According to the frequency of sound I think too it goes from piston, piston pin etc. Remove the spark plugs and try slowly rotate the engine with #24 nut on front crankshaft end to notice any striking resistance or knocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 I had the pistons out when I painted the barrels. Spent some time cleaning the pistons, so I think I would have noticed if there was obvious damage. How obvious is a cracked piston? In other news... I found the rocker arms from this bike's original engine. The Husky is prepped for next weekend, so I think I will try a few more of these fine suggestions later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRD Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Just thought of something, I had a 1980 BMW R100T and was surprised to discover you could actually adjust the clearance between the rocker arms and rocker shaft towers. Is it possible a shim got left out on re-assembly allowing the rocker arms to shift and make that clatter sound? Just shootin in the dark here. Valve train, piston in backwards, anything that would make a consistent clatter sound like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scud Posted May 21, 2017 Author Share Posted May 21, 2017 Here's what I just did: Drained oil radiator - plenty of fresh golden oil came out. Loosened and retightened the exhaust flange nuts. Removed spark plugs and alternator cover. Spun engine with socket - didn't notice anything unusual. No clacking sounds. Replaced RH exhaust rocker with one from original engine (which had 50,000 miles of wear), rotated rocker shaft 180 degrees, verified correct length of bolts that go into rocker shaft, set valves to .004 In and .006 Ex. Started the bike, no change - still have the noise. Swapped the RH spark plug with one from my Red LeMans (in case spark plug was contacting piston) - no change. I suppose it's possible that I put a piston in backwards. I didn't take photos of that so I can't offer "proof" but backwards piston seems unlikely. I am pretty sure that I installed the pistons so the notches in the crowns face the rear to accommodate the larger intake valves. I did take a picture before I removed the pistons and I referred to it when I reinstalled. At this point I am thinking of an internal problem. I don't know the history of the motor, other than that it was in the bike during a pretty bad front-end crash. I suppose the engine could have kept running while it was on its side and that could have caused oil starvation damage. Could a noise like this be due to connecting rod bearing failure? Now I regret not checking those bearings while I had the block on the bench. ...and it looks like she's going to be a coat hanger for while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docc Posted May 21, 2017 Share Posted May 21, 2017 Could a noise like this be due to connecting rod bearing failure? Isn't that the most likely ("first") place a Guzzi V-twin gets damaged from oil starvation? And isn't it also the easiest place to look at for signs of damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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