Quota oil spray on the rear wheel; is this an overflow?

[audiomick]

22 minutes ago, p6x said:

... I guess it is a trial and error job. ...

As far as I can tell, it is, but that doesn't mean you need to go for test rides each time you change the shims.

The process is, as far as I can tell, bolt it up with engineer's blue on one side, turn it a couple of times, and take it apart to see where the contact surface is.

I'm fairly sure you know what engineer's blue is. For those that don't, this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer's_blue

I learned what it is from the novel "The Sand Pebbles" from Richard McKenna, which was proscribed literature in my English classes at school at some point. Just shows to go you what school is good for.

[Lucky Phil]

Every now and then I'm reminded why I do this.

 

220 miles without oil! I'm thinking the drive escaping this unscathed is about zero. You could fill it up and run it for a few miles and check the mag plug again and drained oil as docc suggested but I'm thinking it will be a long shot.

Phil  

[p6x]

2 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Every now and then I'm reminded why I do this.

 

220 miles without oil! I'm thinking the drive escaping this unscathed is about zero. You could fill it up and run it for a few miles and check the mag plug again and drained oil as docc suggested but I'm thinking it will be a long shot.

Phil  

I am planning to do that, as soon as I get the plug. Like in your photo, the plug I purchased can be secured with a wire. But you need a fixed point to attached it to.

But I would feel better if I could take a look inside.

[Lucky Phil]

6 minutes ago, p6x said:

I am planning to do that, as soon as I get the plug. Like in your photo, the plug I purchased can be secured with a wire. But you need a fixed point to attached it to.

But I would feel better if I could take a look inside.

Just drill a small lockwire hole in the shroud to wire to or an angled hole in the drain plug boss.

Phil

Edited yesterday at 12:10 AM by Lucky Phil

[p6x]

1 hour ago, docc said:

If you pour something through to rinse the box through the drain hole, does any metal swarf come out that would indicate damage?

I was planning to do what Phil suggested. Get the new plug, fill up, do a quick run, drain and check what comes out.

I really feel bad, because this plug was only touched by MPH, and I was planning the oil change after this run. I would have discovered it before too late. There wasn't any oil spilled underneath, it all happened in the 500 miles prior.

I am probably going to have that transmission opened, because it will always be in the back of my mind. Plus, I can't sell the bike like this now. It would be unfair.

I also realized that I was lucky to not fall... see how oil wet is the right-hand side of the rear tire?

Even worse, instead of overnighting, I rode back home, in the night, with the Quota non-existent lights, I arrived at 2:00 because I was going slow. But now that I know there was no oil in the final transmission, I don't think it made much difference.

Edited yesterday at 12:17 AM by p6x

[Lucky Phil]

4 hours ago, audiomick said:

As far as I can tell, it is, but that doesn't mean you need to go for test rides each time you change the shims.

The process is, as far as I can tell, bolt it up with engineer's blue on one side, turn it a couple of times, and take it apart to see where the contact surface is.

I'm fairly sure you know what engineer's blue is. For those that don't, this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer's_blue

I learned what it is from the novel "The Sand Pebbles" from Richard McKenna, which was proscribed literature in my English classes at school at some point. Just shows to go you what school is good for.

This works better Mick.

https://www.vpw.com.au/rts-differential-master-bearing-kit-suit-9-inch-fo~11881110?srsltid=AfmBOopXnV4Xpxp0oigPC_g1CdqnDRp_tm0eLfX7JR3rW8Pa-IDCz1sdr7o

Or this

https://torqueking.com/product/90008/qu90008-gear-marking-compound/?sku=90008&srsltid=AfmBOoo6Dfn4xw3NZpGj4RmlrrgORGXrx_2hsxUN2UvKucPvA3IJ_Le9sFw

Edited yesterday at 03:20 AM by Lucky Phil

[pete roper]

200 miles with no oil? It’s scrap. If memory serves me correctly the Quota uses the 8/33 gear set so best bet would be find a Cali 1100 final drive from a pre 2002 model, (I think it was ‘02 they went to the deeper splined hub?) and use that. You might need to swap the spacer in the box but other than that it would bolt straight on. Oh, and remove the shock mount.

[gstallons]

Straighten out the sequences .

 MPH did the work AND they did the gear oil change in the rear drive ? 

You discovered oil everywhere when ?

 You rode the bike 200 miles after finding the drain plug was missing ? 

  comment : for now , if you went 220 mi. w/no oil and you were using Red Line Shockproof gear oil and made it home , I am going to change my oil ASAP 

 

Edited 21 hours ago by gstallons
more info

[p6x]

2 hours ago, gstallons said:

MPH did the work AND they did the gear oil change in the rear drive ?

They did; this was the complete bike overhaul and review after I purchased it.

 

2 hours ago, gstallons said:

You discovered oil everywhere when ?

See that purple marker? it is a Motorcycle tour stop at a point where Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana touch. Since my camera is in my Rimowa case, there weren't any oil droplets on it when I did that stop. Then I drove to the next stop, the one in red on the map: Gladewater. Because the 155 snakes in the forest, with barely any traffic, I drove very fast.

Then I got to Gladewater, and going behind my bike to get the camera, I discovered the oil. Since it was still dripping, and retrospectively, it must have happened very close to the moment when I stopped. If it had during the trip, then there would have been no fresh oil dripping.

2 hours ago, gstallons said:

You rode the bike 200 miles after finding the drain plug was missing ? 

No. I would have never imagined that I had lost the oil drain plug. When I saw the oil, I thought that because I had pushed very fast between Altanta and Gladewater, somehow, I developed a leak at a seal somewhere. The first Quota I went to see in Boise was equipped with an oil breather instead of the filler plug. Now, if I had checked for the drain plug at Gladewater, I don't know what I would have done. Finding a M10 x 1.5 oil drain plug there would have been challenging.

Only yesterday, at home, I inspected the final transmission properly, and I found the oil drain plug missing, then I realized that I had driven 220 miles with a dry drive.

[p6x]

8 hours ago, pete roper said:

200 miles with no oil? It’s scrap. If memory serves me correctly the Quota uses the 8/33 gear set so best bet would be find a Cali 1100 final drive from a pre 2002 model, (I think it was ‘02 they went to the deeper splined hub?) and use that. You might need to swap the spacer in the box but other than that it would bolt straight on. Oh, and remove the shock mount.

 

As soon as I get that oil drain plug, I will fill the rear transmission with oil and ride for a few miles, drain the oil and send it for analysis to Blackstone lab. I will also check for metal burrs on the plug.

I have contacted Mike Haven to get his opinion.

There may have been enough residual lubrication so nothing got irremediably damaged; but this is speculation.

I will take it one step at a time.

Opening the transmission seems to be easy enough. The difficult part is to extract the bearings, since it requires a hub puller and some other specific extraction tools which I do not have, and am not looking to purchase for a one time use.

I found the part https://www.partsandparts.de/en/spare-part-for-moto-guzzi-gu92201070-deep-groove-ball-bearing-70x110x13mm_8604_9522/

 

[p6x]

On a side note, the same bearings sell for $65 plus tax and shipping in the USA, using the Guzzi part number.

The German outfit sells it for 19.99 EUR VAT included, which would be discounted for an order outside of Europe.

If I want to purchase the Timken equivalent here, it is $101.00.

[activpop]

How about contacting Hamlin or Etheridge to see what they have kicking around?

[guzzigary]

@p6x

I’m not going to say that you’re lucky but between the oil on the tire and 200 miles on a dry diff you are definitely shall we say fortunate 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by guzzigary

[pete roper]

Bevel gears do not take kindly to being driven without oil.

If you want an example from my own experience once, back in the day, I decided I wanted to try and raise the final drive gearing a bit on one of my older Tonti’s. I also wanted to fit a ‘Deep Sump’ bevelbox as used on certain Eldorados and 850T’s. To this end I sourced a bos case and purchased at great expense a set of 8/35 bevel gears. I built the gears into the case and everything was looking rosy. BUT at that time I didn’t know that certain early versions of that bevelbox casting had the oil level plug placed far too low in the casing! Sure in hindsight it is obvious that the bottom of the crownwheel would barely be touching the oil and since it is the crownwheel itself that acts as a centrifugal pump to throw the oil around to lubricate anything it meant that the box was going to run damn near dry!

Anyway, I bolted it up to the bike and took it out for a short test ride, only about 10-15km at most. It felt fine, no funny noises or anything, but when I returned to the shop the box was far too hot to touch! I nearly shat meself!

When it had cooled I removed it and stripped it and the gears were shot completely to pieces. To say I was upset is an understatement as in those pre-internet days sourcing them had been very difficult and very expensive! It was only after long research I found out about the level plug location problem and of course once one knew about it it was obvious! A very hard and expensive lesson was learnt!

As for the idea of simply replacing the plug and refilling it? After 200 miles running dry this will not only be pointless it will be very dangerous. The damage to the teeth, especially the pinion teeth, will be extensive. The chance of it spitting one off and locking up the box and rear wheel are high. I would very, very strongly warn against this course of action!

As for the missing plug? I know Mike well and both he and Davey are super conscientious and diligent and I’m sure they would be mortified that this has happened. Everyone makes mistakes occasionally. I’m sure if you approach it sensibly a satisfactory solution can be found.

 

[audiomick]

8 minutes ago, pete roper said:

Bevel gears do not take kindly to being driven without oil.

 The damage to the teeth, especially the pinion teeth, will be extensive. The chance of it spitting one off and locking up the box and rear wheel are high.

Thanks for sharing your experience, Pete (again...). I wasn't aware that this could happen.