Tonti stuck clutch

[docc]

23 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

For those OGs who grew up without air compressors.

 

Gotta get me one o' them!

[Pressureangle]

22 minutes ago, docc said:

 

Gotta get me one o' them!

Every pawn shop has a bucket full for $2.99 each lol

 

[Lucky Phil]

10 hours ago, docc said:

 

Gotta get me one o' them!

It's called a "speed brace" in this part of the world and I've removed about 1 million 10/32 c/s screws with one over my career. Just about every panel on a commercial jet made over the last 60 years uses the afore mentioned screws to secure the external panelling. Once you crack off the screw you can then use just 1 hand on the end of the brace and spin the screw out with a mixing bowl action. The other major benefit is you can push really hard using both hands and body weight or if inverted leg strength on the speed brace to keep the Phillips bit in the screw. You can generate enough torque and force to snap the quality bits off an 1/8 of an inch back from the tip. Useful tool.

Phil  

Edited July 21 by Lucky Phil

[HRC_V4]

Evolution?

[Pressureangle]

9 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

It's called a "speed brace" in this part of the world ... Useful tool.

Phil  

Yes, here an old wood boring drill in this form is called a 'bit brace'. 

[Speedfrog]

In French, “Une Manivelle” . . . One came with my first car, a Renault 4L produced in the mid sixties; I can’t remember the exact year; Handed down to me by my grandfather, powered by a 750cc 4 bangers, three speed gearbox and a 6 volts electrical system that was often too weak to start the engine in frigid temperatures. I got pretty good at using the manivelle  to get it started in the wintertime. 
you can spot the cutout for it in the front bumper of that ‘66 model.

Edited July 21 by Speedfrog

[Tomchri]

English enginering at the best. Had a wodden 44 feet Norwegian fishing vessle with a straight 8 14litre Gardner LBX. Possible to start by hand, speed brace. 2 heads, both with decomp. All internal parts were #, possible to change any lube on the camshaft.  What an engine. Sorry now pictures here.

Cheers Tom.

[MartyNZ]

27 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

English enginering at the best. Had a wodden 44 feet Norwegian fishing vessle with a straight 8 14litre Gardner LBX. Possible to start by hand, speed brace. 2 heads, both with decomp. All internal parts were #, possible to change any lube on the camshaft.  What an engine. Sorry now pictures here.

Cheers Tom.

[motortouring]

Something on the clutch and the splined inner unit (what is the proper terminology for this?).

The older Tontis (and a 83 cali 2 is one of those) had larger splines that used to wear fast which resulted in poor function of the clutch. You might want to change this for the later fine spline model. 

The easiest way is to buy a kit with both clutch plates the steel plate in between and this fine splined unit.

Something like this:

https://www.stein-dinse.com/de/moto-guzzi-kupplungs-set-mit-sicherungsblech-neue/item-1-1078679.html

But I am not sure uf the Stein Dinse quality is good, now a days. I needed a rubber hammer to get the unit on the gearbox axle a few months ago, and that should actually slide on without pressure.

On the geerbox side you have a standard axle sealing, but behind this splined unit that goes on the gearbox axle there are two o-rings that will probably need to be replaced.

For future good operation of the clutch you could use some very thick spline grease with MoS2. Staburag NBU 30.... is used for BMW, but I would say a similar spec works fine.

 

 

[motortouring]

I always forget this part in the manual. The pressure plate has a dot on one of the teeth, it should be in line with the TDC mark. Then the springs fit easily. Maybe you need to wiggle with your fingers to get them in the pockets.

[HRC_V4]

Thanks for the input, I may go that route after I pull the transmission and see what is going. Right now I'm getting my '84 XL350R running again so I can sell it to make a little more room in the garage.

[pete roper]

Be aware as well that some Cali 2’s, and strangely it only seemed to be Cali 2’s, had a weird misalignment of the input shaft of the gearbox and the crank which meant that the friction plates wore very fast in the clutch. The cause was apparently the stud fitment or the dowels on the studs, it’s a L-O-N-G time ago now and I can’t remember the details. This meant the shafts were not concentric so when separated they sort of oscillated around and wore away to nothing is a very short period of time.

Not related to this issue I don’t think but worth being aware of. Certainly while you’re in there you would be barmy not to install a deep spline clutch. Whatever you do don’t use Surflex friction plates.

[Pressureangle]

7 hours ago, pete roper said:

Be aware as well that some Cali 2’s, and strangely it only seemed to be Cali 2’s, had a weird misalignment of the input shaft of the gearbox and the crank which meant that the friction plates wore very fast in the clutch. The cause was apparently the stud fitment or the dowels on the studs, it’s a L-O-N-G time ago now and I can’t remember the details. This meant the shafts were not concentric so when separated they sort of oscillated around and wore away to nothing is a very short period of time.

Not related to this issue I don’t think but worth being aware of. Certainly while you’re in there you would be barmy not to install a deep spline clutch. Whatever you do don’t use Surflex friction plates.

That's an interesting bit of WTF.

It's good policy and mandatory on many auto/truck manual units to indicate the bellhousing for concentricity, using offset dowels to correct. iirc the '51 Waukesha monster I rebuilt had a max runout of .003" allowed. Pity it would be so hard to verify in MG. 

Edited August 5 by Pressureangle

[HRC_V4]

Thanks for all the input, the Tonti is back on the lift, so the crabbing will begin in the next few days.  My neighbor rode my XL today, his first ride in 43 years. I think it will have a new home soon (just down the street).

Just to start a check list;

New 4mm deep spine clutch kit

Rear main seal

5spd seal kit

HD Showa rear air shocks (already purchased, just need to mod the brake bracket).

The bike only has about 20k miles, so I don't think things are really worn out.

[pete roper]

If you’re going into the gearbox it’s really worth shimming the selector drum properly.