Decommissioning the oil cooler

[innesa]

IMG_8350.HEICHello V11 Brains Trust

I have a 2001 V11 LM, that appears to be haemorrhaging oil from the oil cooler.

I am wondering if there is any issue with simply disconnecting the hoses at the sump, replacing them with sump plugs/ similar, & binning the oil cooler altogether?

A mate has a Griso, & he decommissioned that bike's oil cooler, however, replaced the hoses with a single much shorter hose, between the two sump ingress/ egress points due to "one-way flow".

Is there a similar issue with the LM?

Thank you

Edited February 1 by innesa
photo

[activpop]

Im thinking there is a good reason to keep one there...summer.

[gstallons]

Trust me , there are NO unnecessary parts on a motorcycle . If M/G could have saved money and not included an oil cooler on a motorcycle , we would not be having this discussion right now .

[Lucky Phil]

15 hours ago, innesa said:

IMG_8350.HEICHello V11 Brains Trust

I have a 2001 V11 LM, that appears to be haemorrhaging oil from the oil cooler.

I am wondering if there is any issue with simply disconnecting the hoses at the sump, replacing them with sump plugs/ similar, & binning the oil cooler altogether?

A mate has a Griso, & he decommissioned that bike's oil cooler, however, replaced the hoses with a single much shorter hose, between the two sump ingress/ egress points due to "one-way flow".

Is there a similar issue with the LM?

Thank you

Fit a new oil cooler. I bought one of these years ago as a spare.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/175907905618?epid=18024036452&hash=item28f4eda052:g:CasAAOSwT6pVkuJ4&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4DGoZbS4KMUdszj0ffSVl%2Fhf%2FORfMYgJ158QIY%2FUntggB8nk8nWWkkcFeYpt%2Fp%2BYUW9n%2F%2FJkJ5rCj7O1Cp2VrwiwCBkQxw%2FQvo7VCikAwdWdGdWitVKc%2BR9OS6qujQ%2B9dq7HZyAt1eI6g4Zl3Yd3lDYvzcdXCDgxWk9wv%2BsbkRvzwoiI%2B5p2Oz6jaOUxfdyVm8TMIGIniiKscND5E9RvgHoK7c26a91tKA8xo47wkDKLXllQMoWoATI2FKWKL5yKIfokYtuHHiDegmOFZ5wa0TRDb2eh66JR3qsoHYc%2BwYIK|tkp%3ABk9SR57o--isYw

[innesa]

Thank you all for your replies.

Thanks for the eBay link, Lucky - I'll go down that path.

I was expecting prohibitive costs, & I didn't win the lottery last night, but I can stretch myself to that.

Cheers

[pete roper]

Thing is the V11 has a thermostat, as do the two valve CARC bikes so all you have to do is copy the plumbing for an 850 Griso that doesn't have an oil cooler and I reckon you'd be golden. Having said that just buying an aftermarket cooler makes far more sense.

The later 8V's only have a cooler in the actual cooling circuit which doesn't have a thermostat. That is a huge pain as for most of the year it's almost impossible to get the oil up to temperature. Many of us owners blank the cooler off in winter to get the oil temp above 70*C!

[Gritman]

Probably best to replace the cooler, though I’m not convinced it’s essential. On my 1225 V10, I made the decision to delete the cooler to save weight, and fitted a deep V sump with external filter. A bit of a gamble but I could always revert if proved wrong…. I don’t intend to mix it in heavy traffic either. Initially, I was a bit concerned as oil temp crept up quickly to over 100 in suburban use. However, I found it was running lean and with a better map it copes quite happily in suburban use and settles to about 85 on the open road. Goes better too🤗

[guzzler]

On 2/1/2024 at 5:06 PM, innesa said:

IMG_8350.HEICHello V11 Brains Trust

I have a 2001 V11 LM, that appears to be haemorrhaging oil from the oil cooler.

I am wondering if there is any issue with simply disconnecting the hoses at the sump, replacing them with sump plugs/ similar, & binning the oil cooler altogether?

A mate has a Griso, & he decommissioned that bike's oil cooler, however, replaced the hoses with a single much shorter hose, between the two sump ingress/ egress points due to "one-way flow".

Is there a similar issue with the LM?

Thank you

G'day mate

Is it from the oil cooler?

I just had the infamous breather hose replaced on my V11 Sport which did the same thing and it's whereabouts and where it bursts would lead you to think it was something disastrous...

Just asking...

Cheers Guzzler

[docc]

2 hours ago, guzzler said:

G'day mate

Is it from the oil cooler?

I just had the infamous breather hose replaced on my V11 Sport which did the same thing and it's whereabouts and where it bursts would lead you to think it was something disastrous...

Just asking...

Cheers Guzzler

That is really good advice, @innesa.

Unfortunately, the image in the original post is not visible in that format.  Oil leak at the upper front of the V11 motor is so much more likely from the ratty breather hose than the oil cooler, itself . . . 

[pete roper]

The early Hi-cams tend to run very hot. John has had a long, ongoing battle with his Magni overheating but it does have the cantankerous 'C' kit cams in it. If I had one I think I'd be loath to delete the cooler even on a Centi. Not so much because of the oil overheating per-se but because of pressure loss from all the leak points and the seemingly questionable ability of the pump  to deliver sufficient oil when things get toasty.

[innesa]

Thank you for all of the replies, comrades

Aussie Guzzisti will likely know who I'm talking about when I say I placed a call to Mario @ Thunderbikes yesterday, re parts, &, I guess in some ways reassuring, also asked if I was sure it was the cooler, as he'd never heard of anybody having an issue with one before.

So I will delve further, & find out if the breather hose is indeed the culprit. You are right though - it looks like somebody has slit the throat of something that has oil for blood! Excellent timing too, as I was going to look at it either today or tomorrow.

Thanks again, everybody

[Weegie]

14 hours ago, pete roper said:

The early Hi-cams tend to run very hot. John has had a long, ongoing battle with his Magni overheating but it does have the cantankerous 'C' kit cams in it. If I had one I think I'd be loath to delete the cooler even on a Centi. Not so much because of the oil overheating per-se but because of pressure loss from all the leak points and the seemingly questionable ability of the pump  to deliver sufficient oil when things get toasty.

Just to add to Pete, from my travails with the HiCam @Lucky Phil should get most if not all of the credit in helping me to at least have an understanding of the issues.

The 'C' kit cams are the reason that my bike runs hot, this isn't a problem above 40mph where sump temps are stable around 100C and oil pressure doesn't drop below 60psi. However at slow speed, in traffic or extended idling will lead to high oil temps and decaying pressures as the oil thins, once above 110C it goes downhill fast (that's running a 10/60 oil).

Did @Paul Minnaert not also have cooling issues? I think he went to a Vee sump and then also added a cooler, but I don't know if he had 'C' kit cams nor what other mods were completed to that engine

Very few bikes have the 'C' cams, only the Daytona RS engines and due to US emission regs the RS models supplied to America didn't get the 'C' cams either. All the Centis have the standard cams.

As far as deleting the cooler, I'd agree that it certainly wouldn't be something I'd consider even on a Centi or 'B' kitted Daytona (that said the Dr John's were 'B' kitted and didn't have a cooler).

The Guzzi design for the oil cooler on the Daytona broadsumps, Centis and Sportis isn't particularly good IMHO. The hoses to and from the cooler use banjos both at the engine and cooler and on both inlet and return, this incurs a pressure drop penalty and lower flow through the cooler. I installed a considerably smaller cooler onto the Australia (it was all I could find that would fit) than the OEM, but used full flow fittings and when I tested it and the OEM back to back the smaller cooler performed better by 3-4 degC. I've got a slightly larger one to install this year, space is the biggest problem with installing a different cooler to the Australia.

Apologies for drfting off topic, might help Centi or Daytona owners

I know nothing of the V11 4v/v engines

John

[Gritman]

On 1/10/2024 at 4:46 AM, Admin Jaap said:

This is how it looks now. A bit too 'Italian' for my taste. It's for sale btw: https://iconicmotorbikeauctions.com/auction/2002-ghezzi-brian-sport-monza/

Interesting🧐 came across this photo of the Esteemed @Admin Jaap's GB Sport Monza, a V10 (1225?) with a deep vee sump and no cooler….. 

[innesa]

Hello my friends. 
I’d just like to update y’all on my progress:

Thank you for all of the information, & for putting me on to the oil breather hose issue. 
I referred to the technical issue also found on this forum, & essentially replicated somebody’s idea about the rubber hose, copper angles, & hose clamps. 

Sprayed some engine degreaser to remove the leaked oil, & went for a bit of a spin. 
There is no oil leak from the cooler, & I don’t know if it’s in my head, but the bike seems to be running better than it ever has since I’ve owned it. 
Now for the decent tune!

 

[gstallons]

You may as well buy two of these hoses , one to install and one to keep around for a spare . When you install this be sure to index the hose clamps so when you do it AGAIN and AGAIN you will have less trouble with R & R . BTW , if you go with the homemade design , keep in mind this will have to be compatible with petroleum . You may spend more time with your innovation than buying an OEM part. Don't feel like the Lone Ranger , we all have a breather tube that did/does look like this .