Baldini Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 ....I don't like BMW's....their owners are generally insufferable. ... Some of my dearest friends have BMW's.....& ...oh! good grief! - I have one myself....Oh dear... KB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 With the Breva 1100 all the UK Guzzi dealers flew to Italy and each rode back a demo bike. Don't think this has happened with the Greasedpig- maybe they only built one so far! Guy 62720[/snapback] Could be. They were saying that there would only be a choice of red or black with the first batch. Now it is "only black". Maybe one black pig has been made and it's doing the rounds, raking in the deposits. When enough finance has been gathered from what's left of the deposits, after the dosh has got back to Italy and been, ahem, checked and accounted, then they'll make another one – and so on. And Pete Roper was getting all excited about collecting a nice new bike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I think you're great Pete. Really, you make me laugh, you kind of remind me of myself, gruff, outspoken. Reading your entries is always good. I'd like to sit in a pub and just listen while sipping a stout. The truth is, I think newer BMW motorcycles are overrated as well. Questionable looks aside, the amount of electrical gadgetrey they carry around is silly, and frightening when you consider that some of it goes bad with regularity. Owning a new BMW is not a financial reality for me, but owning a newer one off of warranty is not an option, as the cost of making these fixes is stupid. And while I agree the attitude of some BMW riders makes me want to cuff them across the ears, they are no match for the attitudes of H.D. riders. Back to the Breva. I currently own and maintain a shaft drive system from a Guzzi and a BMer. I consider the two of them to be of equal level in terms of time needed to maintain. I think the grease nipples on the Guzzi are a great idea, but getting the grease gun to the front one closest to the gearbox is very tough, in spite of what guys are saying. And i know my way around a wrench, having done ground up restorations, and maintaining machines which among them, is considered a machine which is said to have taken the back yard mechanic out of the picture. The Breva's new enclosed shaft system will still have to be taken apart at regular intervals to grease the shaft splines, either by nipple and grease gun if so equipped, or slide apart and slathered in grease like the BMW paralever. Still the same sort of task in time and theory. One thing I will say is the exposed driveshaft on the pre-Breva Guzzis do suffer from grease fling, not a big thing, but something I naively did not expect after decades of chain drive. Ciao, Steve G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V11UK Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Chill out guys - I can't see what all the fuss is about . Too much negativity. Some of you seem to have condemned the Breva/Griso transmission before its had a chance. Have a little faith - the new engine/transmission has undergone extensive testing after all. I've certainly no worries about it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 I think you're great Pete. ...you kind of remind me of myself... !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdamofKC Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 Chill out guys - I can't see what all the fuss is about . Too much negativity. Some of you seem to have condemned the Breva/Griso transmission before its had a chance. Have a little faith - the new engine/transmission has undergone extensive testing after all. I've certainly no worries about it . 62755[/snapback] Well said. Granted, those who love to live with the classics have every right to criticize the newer designs, the mechanics of it are going to be a mystery until the Breva/Griso become much more readily available to the general public and the oft-denounced motorcycle media get a chance to test it mroe extensively. Also granted, I wanted to hear what everyone had to say about the new Breva. I pretty much did get what I was looking for, just a little more bitterness about the newer technology than I think is warranted. Just be glad guys, though, that Moto Guzzi has not gone to the complete way of BMW. Not everything is electronically controlled, as of yet. And at this point in time, I think the Breva complements the Guzzi line very well and offers a distinct change from the typical German bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted October 11, 2005 Share Posted October 11, 2005 You can bet that the likes of "RuDe" and "Performing Berks" magazine will try to break the new CARC driveline by hoisting massive mingers at every test. Hope it's up to the job....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Well said. Granted, those who love to live with the classics have every right to criticize the newer designs, the mechanics of it are going to be a mystery until the Breva/Griso become much more readily available to the general public and the oft-denounced motorcycle media get a chance to test it mroe extensively. Also granted, I wanted to hear what everyone had to say about the new Breva. I pretty much did get what I was looking for, just a little more bitterness about the newer technology than I think is warranted. Just be glad guys, though, that Moto Guzzi has not gone to the complete way of BMW. Not everything is electronically controlled, as of yet. And at this point in time, I think the Breva complements the Guzzi line very well and offers a distinct change from the typical German bike. 62761[/snapback] Huh???? I'm not 'Bitter' about the Breva or Griso at all, in fact I'm going to buy a Griso ASAP. as for the CARC technology? It's simply an enclosed version of what has gone before and to be honest the exposed V11 driveline is actually MORE reliable than the earlier UJ system because it IS exposed and therefore lubricatable. I don't see the CARC setup as being retrograde or, necessarily, poorly designed. Ugly? For sure! But that seems to be what people want nowadays, everything that might be so uncouth as to be mechanical hidden from view. I think that's weird but that's just me. I don't expect the CARC system to fail extravagantly early at all and using a shaft coupling with a bonded rubber insert is a long established technology that, although I was initialy skeptical of it when I first saw it on K series bimmers, (although I'm sure it predates them.) has proven it's worth and has to give the Couplings in the driveline. not to mention the splines and gear dogs and teeth, an easier time. I do rue the fact that greasing the couplings will be a lot harder, and like it or not I'm afraid mechanical parts like this DO need lubrication. It's not a matter of hoping that, as if by magic, because it's *new* and *modern* the laws of physics don't apply to it or that *modern* materials mean that such things are unnecessary. If it appeared that I was putting sh1t on the system I was misunderstood. If I want to put sh1t on something I can do it far more effectively by pointing out the many and manifest failings of most technology that comes from BMW, that's far more fun too Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 But that seems to be what people want nowadays, everything that might be so uncouth as to be mechanical hidden from view. I think that's weird but that's just me.62864[/snapback] It's weird, it's weird fashion. That's why the Griso isn't 100% totally convincing. It makes a show of being a mechanical brute, but it's visually a bit like a big toy version of a machine, rather than real mechanics being the soul of the thing – the big can, the big, blocky driveline casings and so on. In reality it might be better than that. Need to see one. And smell one. Does nobody think that the engines and of course the so-important cylinders are becoming more artificial looking, going in the direction of looking like they are just there for show? There was a comment a while ago about why old, old Triumphs look better than later old Triumphs – the engine construction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 There was a comment a while ago about why old, old Triumphs look better than later old Triumphs – the engine construction. 62886[/snapback] Non unit construction bikes look great. The Norton Commando for example. The downside is it used to take me HOURS to adjust the primary and final drive chains, and as for oil leaks...... just leave a tin under the thing and pour it back into the primary casing in the morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest AdamofKC Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Huh???? I'm not 'Bitter' about the Breva or Griso at all, in fact I'm going to buy a Griso ASAP. as for the CARC technology? It's simply an enclosed version of what has gone before and to be honest the exposed V11 driveline is actually MORE reliable than the earlier UJ system because it IS exposed and therefore lubricatable. I don't see the CARC setup as being retrograde or, necessarily, poorly designed. Ugly? For sure! But that seems to be what people want nowadays, everything that might be so uncouth as to be mechanical hidden from view. I think that's weird but that's just me. I don't expect the CARC system to fail extravagantly early at all and using a shaft coupling with a bonded rubber insert is a long established technology that, although I was initialy skeptical of it when I first saw it on K series bimmers, (although I'm sure it predates them.) has proven it's worth and has to give the Couplings in the driveline. not to mention the splines and gear dogs and teeth, an easier time. I do rue the fact that greasing the couplings will be a lot harder, and like it or not I'm afraid mechanical parts like this DO need lubrication. It's not a matter of hoping that, as if by magic, because it's *new* and *modern* the laws of physics don't apply to it or that *modern* materials mean that such things are unnecessary. If it appeared that I was putting sh1t on the system I was misunderstood. If I want to put sh1t on something I can do it far more effectively by pointing out the many and manifest failings of most technology that comes from BMW, that's far more fun too Pete 62864[/snapback] My apologies, Pete. Being that this is online and without any true emotional interaction, except for smilies, the attitudes of some of the text here and in other topics seems to be of either blind adoration or ignorant hate. Granted there are the subtle differences within, but text does not allow readers such as myself to differentiate the true interpretations of the poster. I apologise for any misunderstanding. But back to the topic at hand. Being that I am not mechanically inclined (but I do know how to twist a screw-driver and the difference between a phillips and a flathead), MY logic would suggest that an enclosed driveshaft would allow the proper lubrication to said drive parts to recieve the neccessary fluids, without the chance of pollutants or otherwise damaging particulates to affect overall performance of the parts in question, such as the drive shaft system. Would my logic be flawed, in the case that the enclosure just protects from rocks and sticks and add unneccessary weight, or correct in the assumption that is aids in part lubrication? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badmotogoozer Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 It's weird, it's weird fashion. That's why the Griso isn't 100% totally convincing. It makes a show of being a mechanical brute, but it's visually a bit like a big toy version of a machine, rather than real mechanics being the soul of the thing – the big can, the big, blocky driveline casings and so on. 62886[/snapback] OK we're supposed to be bashing the Breva here, but since BFG is gonna take a shot at the Greaso... By jove, you've hit it! That's exactly what I don't like about the Grease pig. It's a confused thing... like an adolescent trying to fit in... but not sure where "in" is exactly... If it said Tonka on the side instead of Guzzi, it would be more convincing. Rj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 What is quite evident is that the V11 is for all its modern brakes and electrical bits "a classic bike". The Greaser and the Bravo are modern "style over substance" weekend toys. This forum is, really, when it comes down to it, mainly populated by vintage and classic bike freaks, and that's why the V11 appeals and the Greaser and Bravo don't. I might like a Greaser once it is old and knackered enough for all the bling to be gone though. I guess underneath, I'm a rat-biker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Enclosure isn't necessary for either lubrication or protection! How many off-road vehicles – that are dragged through sand, swamp, gravel, trees, water and rocks – have enclosed drive shafts? Even chromed ball joints don't get protection. Sometimes gaiters are used, but the downside is that muck and water still finds its way in and then it stays in. Half-shafts would tend to be enclosed, of course; diffs are enclosed; but propshafts and UJs just hang out in the open and take what's coming. All that road bikes have to put up with is a bit of road spray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted October 12, 2005 Share Posted October 12, 2005 Enclosure isn't necessary for either lubrication or protection! 62919[/snapback] Don't tell your teenage children! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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