Skeeve Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Oh damn, what was this topic about? Ahh yes, the Breva. I know this might have been answered, but is there anything special about the new Shaft Drive system MG is using for the Breva? What is this new "CA.R.C System" supposed to do? 62514[/snapback] CARC is a fancy new acronym for the same drive system as on the V11 series, only with a slick new swingarm casting to provide weather (& lube) protection. So, in a few years time, all the new Breva & Griso owners who believe in "out of sight-out of mind" will begin experiencing driveline failures when they discover that even tho' the bearings in the U-joints are now protected from the weather, the fact that the factory habitually scrimps on the lube during assembly doesn't mean the bikes with the CARC driveline can be rode hard & put up wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdude Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 mein Gott. this thread has gone some strange places since Friday... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nogbad Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 CARC is a fancy new acronym for the same drive system as on the V11 series, only with a slick new swingarm casting to provide weather (& lube) protection. So, in a few years time, all the new Breva & Griso owners who believe in "out of sight-out of mind" will begin experiencing driveline failures when they discover that even tho' the bearings in the U-joints are now protected from the weather, the fact that the factory habitually scrimps on the lube during assembly doesn't mean the bikes with the CARC driveline can be rode hard & put up wet. 62602[/snapback] Is there an oil bath in there? My worry is that the fancy little rubber bellows is on the top of the driveline. If you observe where the water is thrown (down off the tyre and tailpiece) it will only take a small split in this component to fill the swingarm with water and grit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Is there an oil bath in there? My worry is that the fancy little rubber bellows is on the top of the driveline. If you observe where the water is thrown (down off the tyre and tailpiece) it will only take a small split in this component to fill the swingarm with water and grit. 62618[/snapback] But that has always been the case. Tonti and Loop Frame machines have used a belows for ever and it is one of the least failure prone things on the bike. I can't see the uglied up back end being a problem per-se. I do agree though that the enclosed nature of the system will mean that it will be aright frontbottom to service, I don't eben know if Guzzi have deemed it necessary for the poor old trunnions to have grease nipples on? What I do know is that later, replacement, UJ's for Tontis now seem to be assembled with grease!!!!! Praise the Lord! I know people who have done over 150,000Km on *new* UJ's without issue so we can only hope that the same folks are making the Breva/Griso units. I also know that before my Griso goes anywhere NEAR a road it will have the whole arse end pulled out and examined. Looking at what pictures I have seen of the system it looks as if the driveshaft now has a BMW-esque, ( ) rubber cush drive incorporated in the main section of the shaft. Since the *new* six-speeder seems to keep the pathetically useless belville washer stack/face cam input shaft shock absorber this can only be a good thing as late model five speeds will munch the foreshortened splines on the shaft itself like it's going out of fashion because the Belville stack DOESN'T F*CKING WORK!!!!!! I dunno if there will be readily available info on the *new* driveline by the time I pull mine to bits but you can bet your bottom dollar that if I pull it to bits and find anything that needs addressing I'll post it up on the web somewhere and while I'm not the cleverest bloke in the world I do have a long experience of Guzzis and what the factory tends to do to stuff up an otherwise wonderful product Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chad Lewis Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 But that has always been the case. Tonti and Loop Frame machines have used a belows for ever and it is one of the least failure prone things on the bike. I can't see the uglied up back end being a problem per-se. I do agree though that the enclosed nature of the system will mean that it will be aright frontbottom to service, I don't eben know if Guzzi have deemed it necessary for the poor old trunnions to have grease nipples on? What I do know is that later, replacement, UJ's for Tontis now seem to be assembled with grease!!!!! Praise the Lord! I know people who have done over 150,000Km on *new* UJ's without issue so we can only hope that the same folks are making the Breva/Griso units. I also know that before my Griso goes anywhere NEAR a road it will have the whole arse end pulled out and examined. Looking at what pictures I have seen of the system it looks as if the driveshaft now has a BMW-esque, ( ) rubber cush drive incorporated in the main section of the shaft. Since the *new* six-speeder seems to keep the pathetically useless belville washer stack/face cam input shaft shock absorber this can only be a good thing as late model five speeds will munch the foreshortened splines on the shaft itself like it's going out of fashion because the Belville stack DOESN'T F*CKING WORK!!!!!! I dunno if there will be readily available info on the *new* driveline by the time I pull mine to bits but you can bet your bottom dollar that if I pull it to bits and find anything that needs addressing I'll post it up on the web somewhere and while I'm not the cleverest bloke in the world I do have a long experience of Guzzis and what the factory tends to do to stuff up an otherwise wonderful product Pete 62620[/snapback] I hope you can get your hands on the right kind of lube. I don't know what you blokes use down there on that big Island of yours, but synthetic Corn oil is all we like to use! You are a lucky basage! Summer ridding season is close at hand and are going to get to ride something special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve G. Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 But that has always been the case. Tonti and Loop Frame machines have used a belows for ever and it is one of the least failure prone things on the bike. I can't see the uglied up back end being a problem per-se. I do agree though that the enclosed nature of the system will mean that it will be aright frontbottom to service, I don't eben know if Guzzi have deemed it necessary for the poor old trunnions to have grease nipples on? What I do know is that later, replacement, UJ's for Tontis now seem to be assembled with grease!!!!! Praise the Lord! I know people who have done over 150,000Km on *new* UJ's without issue so we can only hope that the same folks are making the Breva/Griso units. I also know that before my Griso goes anywhere NEAR a road it will have the whole arse end pulled out and examined. Looking at what pictures I have seen of the system it looks as if the driveshaft now has a BMW-esque, ( ) rubber cush drive incorporated in the main section of the shaft. Since the *new* six-speeder seems to keep the pathetically useless belville washer stack/face cam input shaft shock absorber this can only be a good thing as late model five speeds will munch the foreshortened splines on the shaft itself like it's going out of fashion because the Belville stack DOESN'T F*CKING WORK!!!!!! I dunno if there will be readily available info on the *new* driveline by the time I pull mine to bits but you can bet your bottom dollar that if I pull it to bits and find anything that needs addressing I'll post it up on the web somewhere and while I'm not the cleverest bloke in the world I do have a long experience of Guzzis and what the factory tends to do to stuff up an otherwise wonderful product Pete 62620[/snapback] Golly Pete, Why do you find it so hard for Guzzi to copy what is a good idea, even if it is from your arch rival BMW? I know of a paralever that has over 300,000kms. Ciao, Steve G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twhitaker Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 For those of you lined up to buy a 1100 Breva in October. October in Italian translates to 'spring thaw.' Pass the salt, please, it's gonna be a long winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
callison Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 For those of you lined up to buy a 1100 Breva in October. October in Italian translates to 'spring thaw.' Pass the salt, please, it's gonna be a long winter. 62662[/snapback] I call the dealer every other week and inquire. The answer is always the same, "MGNA keeps telling us it's this month (October). They have 3 weeks left to make good on that one. Yeah Team!! Yawn... I should just have my son (stationed in the UK) pick up a Griso and ship it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 I should just have my son (stationed in the UK) pick up a Griso and ship it to me. 62668[/snapback] You think that will be easier? These things are/were meant to be in England now. I'm in London next week and wanted to try to see one. I've e-mailed and phoned one of the main dealers, but I can never get a clear answer about anything from them. What I have been able to pick-up is that they will probably get 4 bikes and that they are all spoken for. Although they had previously said that there should be Grisos in the showroom by this stage, I don't know that there actually are. The other dealer that I have contacted, in London, gave a more precise answer. This morning they said that they have had the press bike on loan, but it was being taken away today. Seems there may not be any real 'for sale' Grisos arriving yet, just a press bike doing the rounds. That second dealer had an open day on Saturday. Said there was a lot of interest and with orders taken, any bikes coming in are already sold. However they don't expect any real bikes to arrive anytime soon. The only way of anyone getting a Griso will be to place a definite order and then wait..... .....for some to arrive from Italy. sometime They say that supply will be extremely limited. Even if someone placed an order today it is extremely unlikely that they would get a bike before next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Max Moto in Suffolk say they have one in their showroom according to their website- Bury St Edmonds-about 80 miles from Central London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete roper Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Golly Pete, Why do you find it so hard for Guzzi to copy what is a good idea, even if it is from your arch rival BMW? I know of a paralever that has over 300,000kms. Ciao, Steve G. 62657[/snapback] Well, the BMW swingarm and floating bevelbox thing is, if anything, even uglier and heavier than the CARC hideousness . Really though you may of noticed that I was in fact expressing a kind of shocked surprise that Guzzi should start using a driveshaft cush and was really pissed off that they have addopted the Belville stack spring system for the face cam shocky in the box as it really is crap. Look, I don't like BMW's but what I really hate is their advertising which is lapped up by the gullible and mentally frail. "The complete driving machine.". What? A German Taxi? Gimme a break! I also have trouble accepting that having an engine's oil pump driven by it's alternator belt is a particularly brilliant idea! As for their bikes I've seen enough buggered BMW gearboxes to last me a lifetime thanks. They are over-rated and their owners are generally insufferable. apart from that I have nothing against them Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belfastguzzi Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Max Moto in Suffolk say they have one in their showroom according to their website- Bury St Edmonds-about 80 miles from Central London. 62689[/snapback] Not sure. I think if they had a real one they'd be screaming about it a bit more. I had assumed that was 'the press bike' from a while ago. You're talking about the small print, news item? Maybe I missed something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldini Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The shock of having people actually wanting to buy their bikes must be a bit of shock for Guzzi. It may take a while for them to grasp the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big J Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 The shock of having people actually wanting to buy their bikes must be a bit of shock for Guzzi. It may take a while for them to grasp the concept. 62717[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guzzirider Posted October 10, 2005 Share Posted October 10, 2005 Not sure. I think if they had a real one they'd be screaming about it a bit more. I had assumed that was 'the press bike' from a while ago. You're talking about the small print, news item? Maybe I missed something else. 62716[/snapback] Yes I just picked it up from their news item- definitely worth a call before trekking that way. With the Breva 1100 all the UK Guzzi dealers flew to Italy and each rode back a demo bike. Don't think this has happened with the Greasedpig- maybe they only built one so far! Guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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