I bought a gun to prepare for WW3

[Bill Hagan]

Having guns in the home _because you feel you need them for protection_ is not my idea of a free society.

 

General Gage likely said much the same thing; we felt differently.

[dlaing]

I'm surprised we made it 66 posts before this slant arised. Kind of like having a chat in the parking lot about Guzzis, Ducatis, injection, tires . . . and some bloke walks up to say, " those big motorbikes are dangerous and a nuisance. They should be banned. No one needs one."

 

Freedom is a powerful and fragile existance. It's price is, indeed, eternal vigilance.

Yah, kinda like after some the guy boasts how he enjoys commuting to work one one of the most dangerous bikes on the market, but it is no problem, anyone should be able to do it, simple mastery required.

and some bloke, a member of the same club, mind you, or did they ostracize the guy? , walks up and says, yah, well you are little more talented than the usual yahoo that buys those bikes.

Look at the insurance industry statistics that show that there are more accidents on this bike than Moto Guzzis, because morons buy this bike.

This forum sucks.

Even DOCC buys into this one sided opinion crap!

There, is that more like the geeky FBI agent walking in all alone, flashing his badge, and saying your are all under arrest, into the Hell's Angel's annual clandestine gun show?

[todd haven]

anyone should be able to do it,

 

Finally, common ground!

[Guest ratchethack]

Yah, if you are an above average intelligence, controlling, perfectionist.

 

Pay no attention to the following link, as it was probably funded by LIBERALS

http://www.kidsandguns.org/study/fact_file.asp

I'll pay no attention to it because it was designed for the consumption of willfully ignorant FOOLS, and I haven't allowed myself to become conditioned to swallow garbage.

 

"When anti-gun activists and politicians claim 11 children a day are killed with guns in America, they include anyone under age 20, including teen-aged "gang bangers" as children."

 

SOURCE: National Center for Health Statistics, 1998

 

 

I'm continually amazed what ignorance has wrought by way of propaganda and blind GROUPTHINK.

 

The anti-gun propagandists would have their target Proletariat remain ignorant of history.

 

Try to deny and then ignore any of the following:

 

 

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up & exterminated.

 

IN 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up & exterminated.

 

Germany established gun control in 1938 and from 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves wre rounded up & exterminated.

 

China establisehd gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up & exterminated.

 

Guatemala establisehd gun control in 1970. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up & exterminated.

 

Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up & exterminated.

 

Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up & exterminated.

 

DEFENSELESS PEOPLE ROUNDED UP AND EXTERMINATED IN THE 20TH CENTURY BECAUSE OF GUN CONTROL: 56 MILLION.

 

The next time someone says they're in favor of gun control, ask them, "Who do YOU want to round up & exterminate?" With guns we are Citizens. Without them, we are subjects.

 

Unlike IGNORANCE, Truth is timeless. With this in mind:

 

"Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation, that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?

 

--Patrick Henry, 3J. Elliott, Debates in the Several State Conventions 45, 2d ed. Philadelphia, 1836

 

 

Gentlemen, we live in an era of rampant global terrorism. I live within an easy ride of a virtually open International border where I have personally witnessed hordes of individuals of unknown origin (including the usual population of, when apprehended, known criminals escaping prosecution in their countries of origin) in an area known for more than a century as "Smugglers Gulch". From horseback, I have seen them by the hundreds swarming over the hills in unison when "the signal" is given, rushing the border in waves, while Border Patrol vehicles run up & down the roads in utter futility, apprehending only a tiny few as the rest escape into the bushes. Many of the ones I saw had large and small backpacks and various "packages". Many are known to be "mules", who are very well paid for transporting various contraband over the border. It has been well known for years by the Border Patrol that a significant percentage of those coming across are of Mideast origin. They're headed for inaccessible back-country camps and way-stations on well-worn migration trails north.

 

Today, the county I live in is on fire. It's been burning for a week. Hundreds of thousands of acres have gone up. Last I knew yesterday, it was only 25% contained. The origin of the fire was a "migrant" encampment and staging area for smugglers and traffickers in various forms of human merchandise (it's well-known in all of North America as a major supply line for child prostitution rings) in a remote and inaccessible area known as "Horsethief Canyon" that has been well-established by "coyotes", drug cartels, criminals on the lam, and other forms of human offal, for over a century.

 

The local news never contains the slightest mention of any of this, even though the black market cash flow from the activity above rivals the GDP of many nations. Mentioning it would be bad for legitimate business and entirely politically incorrect behavior, you see. Consequently, though my county has some of the highest value real estate in North America, most residents have NO KNOWLEDGE of what's going on under their noses every day. Law enforcement is required to take a "don't ask, don't tell" and "out of sight, out of mind" attitude. Any semblance of "aggressive" enforcement of the Law by "newby" Cops and Border Patrol is punished early, often, and harshly.

 

3 years ago, I was evacuated from my home for 3 days, when another fire, also known to have been started by an illegal alien within a mile of the beautiful newly built home of good friends of mine, raged accross my county, reaching within a half-mile of my house, consuming a huge portion of the county, some 300,000 acres. Hundreds of homes went up, and a few dozen people died. It was a time of terror and confusion for thousands of residents. Thankfully, there were only a small number of cases of unarmed people who were looted and robbed, a few at gunpoint. Like many of my friends and neighbors, I was armed. None of my neighbors were robbed, nor was I.

 

With near-destitute and criminal elements streaming north though my county on a daily basis by the millions annually, the only thing protecting me and my fellow citizens in the "back country" from the usual chaos and looting on a daily basis - and particularly following these fires - has been and continues to be the knowledge of those who typically attempt to capitalize on the vulnerability of others is that SOME of us are armed. The perp's never know which ones, which makes the risk too high for most of them.

 

For those who have no use for guns, you can be thankful that if you're fortunate enough, and if your government hasn't yet disarmed them, your neighbors may be responsible enough and wise enough to exercise their rights and responsibilities to their families of self-protection. Their preparedness offers YOU a margin of protection by providing YOU with a neighborhood that is at least in part defended by immediate armed response in lieu of a phone number. Calling 911 merely provides victims of crime access to hospitalization and legal documention of what happened after the fact. Whether you're ignorant of it or not, you owe your armed neighbors a debt of gratitude for your security and well-being.

[mike wilson]

And one that prevented me from owning a gun is one I would not willingly participate in.

So we're even.

 

I'm glad you enjoy the structure of your society, and

feel the need to criticize mine.

 

For the record, I have never pointed a gun at anyone.

 

Not criticism, merely pointing out that there could be a better option.

 

 

 

 

Why is it, then, that the countries with high levels of gun ownership have higher levels of gun related fatalities amonst their populations?

 

Excuse me while I hide in my bunker from the inevitable avalanche of references proving me wrong. See you Monday.

 

m

[Guest ratchethack]

Not criticism, merely pointing out that there could be a better option.

This is a typically ignorant statement, evidently based on wishful thinking and/or perhaps a dream fantasy and/or perhaps the well-crafted sound bytes of the propagandist. Exactly what "options" do you have in mind that might be backed by the historical record?

 

Once again I am amazed by adult "logic" that evidently goes like this:

 

"It could be, it should be, it fits my version of what ought to be, therefore IT IS!!"

Why is it, then, that the countries with high levels of gun ownership have higher levels of gun related fatalities amonst their populations?

 

Excuse me while I hide in my bunker from the inevitable avalanche of references proving me wrong. See you Monday.

 

m

Is this a "drive-by?" If you'd like to provide some evidence of what you claim, I'll take a run at it. The fact is that this is utter nonsense. In countries such as the UK and Australia, crime rates have escalated following gun control, and yes, I can prove it. You show me yours and I'll show you mine. I caution you that this always comes down to credibility of sources.

[docc]

 

This forum sucks.

Even DOCC buys into this one sided opinion crap!

 

The forum sucked less back when we were so busy with our gearshitboxes and electrical maladies we didn't feel compelled to dispute with one another over unrelated topics. The move to put this sort of banter aside into a forum of its own is eidence that what we were doing didn't work well for the best of the LeMans forum itself.

 

Unfortunately , the personal views and disputes between individuals has bled over from unrelated topics into the technical threads. One poster even deleted his posts with some valuable technical links because the thread was heating up. Too bad for all of us, really.

 

As far as one sided opinions, I overtly grant you yours. You don't want to own a firearm? No problem, there are plenty of places in the world where that is mainstream. Don't believe in God? You're not alone. Don't like this thread or this forum? It's a big web out there.

[DeBenGuzzi]

The forum sucked less back when we were so busy with our gearshitboxes and electrical maladies we didn't feel compelled to dispute with one another over unrelated topics. The move to put this sort of banter aside into a forum of its own is eidence that what we were doing didn't work well for the best of the LeMans forum itself.

 

Unfortunately , the personal views and disputes between individuals has bled over from unrelated topics into the technical threads. One poster even deleted his posts with some valuable technical links because the thread was heating up. Too bad for all of us, really.

 

As far as one sided opinions, I overtly grant you yours. You don't want to own a firearm? No problem, there are plenty of places in the world where that is mainstream. Don't believe in God? You're not alone. Don't like this thread or this forum? It's a big web out there.

this coming from Dr.Quackery, I actually don't think we have much of a problem, maybe its the heet, maybe its the large amount of freetime after running out of things to fix like stated but I don't think anyone on this forum sucks I think dingaling can go a little over board, ratchet might too sometimes but I have yet to make it all the way through one of this posts. I always marked it under friendly banter like you would do with your friends over a glass of wine and tell them bush? you like bush? what are you a f'ing moron? and ya know have a lil spat but youre still friends afterwards. Politics don't dictate who my friends are. believe me I have a large mix.

 

I've heard "42% of all liberals are queers"

 

And guns don't kill ppl, women drivers do, (cagers as you call'em)

[DeBenGuzzi]

this coming from Dr.Quackery, I actually don't think we have much of a problem, maybe its the heet, maybe its the large amount of freetime after running out of things to fix like stated but I don't think anyone on this forum sucks I think dingaling can go a little over board, ratchet might too sometimes but I have yet to make it all the way through one of this posts. I always marked it under friendly banter like you would do with your friends over a glass of wine and tell them bush? you like bush? what are you a f'ing moron? and ya know have a lil spat but youre still friends afterwards. Politics don't dictate who my friends are. believe me I have a large mix.

 

I've heard "42% of all liberals are queers"

 

And guns don't kill ppl, women drivers do, (cagers as you call'em)

honestly, I meant Dr. Quackery as a sly respectful pun. I remember the drawn out conversations we had about his profession. Sorry it came out wrong ppl.

[Bill Hagan]

Withdrawn with apologies.

 

I am having a bad day and lost my sense of humor.

 

Thanks.

 

Bill

[DeBenGuzzi]

eh, I'll let Dr.Docc chime in, if he is indeed hurt by anything I'll remove the misconstrewed comments myself.

 

ppl need to go ridding more and typing less, I'm done with the banter forum. egh.

[dlaing]

Politics don't dictate who my friends are. believe me I have a large mix.

 

Maybe you aren't taking your politics seriously enough.

"I don't hate people cause of their politics, some of my best friends are racist neo-(con)nazi killers"

[todd haven]

Maybe you aren't taking your politics seriously enough.

"I don't hate people cause of their politics, some of my best friends are racist neo-(con)nazi killers"

 

And perhpas some take their politics too seriously.

Give it a break already.

In the last 25 years, I have found myself on both ends of the political spectrum.

Finally settling on a Libertarian-based,

(paying payroll taxes, business taxes, dealer license, sign permit fees, dumpster permit fees,

alarm permit fees, oil storage fees, battery recycling fees, welding equipt. fees, "other combustible material fees",collecting sales tax for the state, can have that effect)

restricted government approach, I avoid political discussions in social settings.

When was the last time you saw anyone, regardless of their background,

slap their knee, and say-- "by George, I had not looked at it from your point of view.

I certainly understand you viewpoint, and how you arrived at it."

 

You see, I have said that to people from both sides of the spectrum.

I now realize they were both dead wrong, and of course,

only my viewpoint is the correct one.

[Martin Barrett]

It's a cultural thing. and each to their own. And it makes this board so more interesting because of it's global make up.

 

I used to shoot whilst in the air cadets, but having joined the RAF whilst doing the qualifying shoots I became very aware that the next time might not just putting holes in a target but people. I believed that should that arise it would be for good reason.

 

As a police officer I'm glad that guns aren't a feature of our everyday (UK) life. Being armed it effects the whole way that you have to interact with people. Over the last few years the increase in knife crime has meant the advent of stab and ballistic vest as part of our normal uniform. We've had incapacitant sprays (CS and now pepper) that are "firearms" under UK law as part of our normal equipment for the last 10 years.

 

I've seen the move from traditional truncheons through side handled batons (nightsticks) to expandable straight batons. I've never had to hit anyone though I've felt compelled to draw once, a bit of a stand off not wishing to escalate to the next stage knowing the cavalry were on the way. Once pulled up, sheath the baton and moved in for the take down with rigid cuffs(best bit of kit ever)

 

We've had a couple of high profile police shootings in the last couple of years, and it takes over a year before the Officers involved are vindicated and advised that they will not be subject to criminal charges and returned to full duties. There may have been failings in the system that led to the actual shooting but the chap at the sharp end acting in good faith doing it to the best of his ability is placed under an enormous amount of pressure, as if having shot someone wasn't enough.

 

There are guns out there, and in some areas quite common. We had a local "businessman" assassinated with an AK47

 

I'm glad the thing I'm most at risk from these days is spilling my coffee into my lap I'm just an old traditionalist

 

For what it's worth I liked the 7.62mm SLR, that'd be my home defence weapon of choice. Would have to get a longer driveway though.

[dhansen]

Ya know, its all this controversy over the ugly side of guns that has caused me to lose just about all interest in them. I was sorta lured into this thread by some interesting comments about a couple of guns I've had in the past and the fond memories I have of messing around with them.

 

For many years I loved doing gunsmith work, reloading ammo and studying all of the dynamic forces involved in the shooting sports. I could talk for hours about the development of Winchester highwall rifles or the evolution of 22 rimfire cartridges or whatever gun/cartridge/subject might come up.

 

Trouble is, more often than not the subject matter turned to this gun control bill or that or which whacko walked into the post office and shot everyone up. Turn on the news and it is who shot who and virtually every prime time show or movie features nothing but death by guns. Society in this country, America, has a sick facination with the power to blow themselves and others away at will.

 

Now I know that last statement was exagerated but it is hard not to feel that way. I grew up with Boys Life Magazine and its ads by Marlin and Savage for 22s and small shotguns. Every ad had a kindly father or adult shown with the young boy showing him the ropes of shooting. My dad made sure I attended a firearms safety course and my next door(ranch) neighbor taught me respect for the potential danger of guns before I ever got to touch one. I still look at guns in my mind from that perspective and I abhor the thought of ever having to point one at a human being, let alone game of any sort. Never was much of a hunter.

 

The gun control issue is far too deep and complicated for me to address in a logical and rational manner mostly because the opponents are not. Unfortunately gun people too often give the antigun folks good reason to make the clains they do. In reality there are valid points to be made on both sides. For me though, its not worth the grief.

 

I'm gonna go for a ride..................