Weegie

Magni's screens are very thin, depending more on shape than material for rigidty. I can't comment on the V11 fairing but on the Magni bikes I own, when you order a screen it comes with only the center hole drilled at the front, the rest is up to you. It's tricky as the screen has to be shaped to mate with the fairing which changes the hole locations a little, the screen is in compression when it's on the fairing and both fairing and screen change shape as you install it. It's very easy to drill them then find they don't fit or stress the screen too much and crack the bloody thing....................NO don't ask!! What I've done in the past was to drill the holes in pairs, so mount the screen with the center hole locating screen to fairing, then drill the pair next out from center. Repeat for the next pair, then the pair after that until working towards the outer edges until you're finished. EDIT Just to add that after I drilled each pair of holes I then bolted them into position, before marking off the next pair. Then you unbolt the screen drill the holes and then bolt all the holes drilled to the fairing before marking off the next pair. Trying to mark them all off at once usually doesn't end well..............and don't ask me how I know that either It's an utter pain!!!

If the lower gear on the oil pump lacks a bearing it's out a HiCam engine Daytona/Centauro & some of the pieces are Centauro (where's the grenade icon when you need it) Hard to tell on the screen but don't think it's a Magni, more screws on the Magni and they were M5 at the front and M6 at the sides Just parts I know about off the top of my head

I remember in college a lecturer informing us fresh faced yoofs "You can never make anything idiotproof, because idiots are so ingenious"

Haven't watched it all but that's an impressive amount of designing and machining. I suppose some would say it's OTT, or what's the point? Not me though I love all these impressive touches just for their own sake, it's an artwork. Pity the video uses computer generated narration, I find it hard to listen to.

Damm Thanks Phil it's a 16M Reckon the principal still holds true, that the ECU does control the saturation time for the coils, that being the case if I managed to determine a stick coil with a similar primary or even slightly higher resistance, it would be a canditate for use in place of the Marelli 850s. It's not something I'm going to looking at anytime soon though, just installed some NGK racing leads to replace the original HT leads which were suffering badly from lying on the heads John

@Meinolf Wow that's a fantasitc piece of work and terrific explanation, thank you so much. I'll need to read it a few times to take in, in its entirety. The ECU is doing even more than I imagnied, I knew it was complex before, but that's even way more advanced. So if I'm reading your explanation correctly (still taking it all in) then the ECU has control over coil saturation times and can and does vary them dependent on various external factors. If that is the case then obtaining a stick coil to suit is a possibilty, not for now, it's very useful to have some rudimetary understanding (not you're explantion of course, more my limited intellect.) That's given me an insight into an area of the ECU that I just had no clue about I am most grateful John

Hi Meinolf The specific bike I'm referring to runs a 15M ECU and it's a 4v/v per cylinder Hi Cam engine (the model would be a Daytona RS). I think the Sport 1100 injection and the early V11s also had the 15M (not that I know anything about ECUs) Looking at the wiring diagram for a Centauro, which is almost identical, it's obvious that the coil has a positive supply to it all of the time, it's fed from the power relay. Does the ECU vary the period it opens the circuit to the coils (or is it a fixed period regardless of any other parameters), prior to grounding it again? I'm wondering if the circuit to each coil was left open by the ECU for a period longer than required to discharge the coils, then grounds the coils to charge them. If that was the case then the coil charge period would be controlled by the ECU on the negative side, when it was open the coil wouldn't charge and when it was grounded it would. Many Thanks for posting up and responding, very much appreciated. If you require more information on the ECU or if it's unclear what I'm trying to explain, just let me know. John

So I'm starting to get into my new to me BMW R9T ready to start doing a little service work and noticed that it has stick coils. A while back I was thinking of replacing the standard coils on my HiCam with stick coils and just looking at the BMW coils and placing them into the HiCam thought they might fit reasonably well. The main reason was/is to get rid of the conventional coils as I'd like to install a larger cooler and the coils and fuel pump are the 2 items that would need relocating (the coils especially being a PIA where they are currently sited). I had looked at this before and it's still just idle musings for now. One thing I read after doing a bit of Googling was how older bikes just left the coils to charge/saturate during the time they are not required to generate a spark, but that might burn out stick coils as they are usually a far lower primary resistance. Burning out the ECU was also mentioned if the coil resistance was too low as well, due to taking a larger currrent than it could handle. However the Marelli 850 coils installed on the HiCam/Sporti and possibly V11s have a very low resistance, around 0.6 Ohm, compare that to any of the older models which usually have coils cirica 5 Ohms. It got me to wondering if unlike the earlier bikes the charging/saturation times on the Marelli 850 coils is controlled by the ECU in so much as the ECU actually switches them on and off as opposed to just leaving them live when a spark isn't required. If that's not the case why install coils with such a low primary? As I said it's pie in the sky right now but just a thought and if it was possible and stick coils could be identified that were suitable, might help others as the Marelli coils can sometimes be hard to source. I wonder if @Meinolf knows if the ECU switches the coils on and off and what the saturation times are, pretty sure he must have some sort of clue as he's done extensive research on the workings with the ECU and built simulators to mimic its functions on a running bike. Idle musings for now John

Phil nailed it back on page 1, AFAIK Octane number does not equate to a "bigger bang" usually the reverse is true. The majority on here are extremely well informed (I'm excluding myself in that statement). AFAIK, Octane rating is poorly understood by the majority of motorcyclists. It's usually equated with more power and that's not the case (unless the engine is designed around the rating), it delays the onset of detonation and to make use of that the engine has to be tuned to suit. Reading about Aero engines during WWII the allies had acess to 100 Octane then 150 (pure Octane being 100 on the detotnation scale). This enabled engines (like the Merlin) to produce more power but to do so they ran at stupidly high boost numbers.

Reading this just out of interest as I don't own a V11. Just a couple of stupid questions, from the thread I gather that there are 2 Lambdas installed, in the headers? Are these wide or narrow band? I've got an 2017 R9T and I've installed a full Zard system, so bye bye cat. The R9T MAY run a little lean without the cat, opinion varies, the system is (allegedly) closed loop and the sensors are narrow band. I've installed a RapidBike Evo, this will adaptive tune using the narrow band over a few hundred miles to an adjustable AFR set by the user, if required, it also allows some other fuel tweaks and you can tinker with the map. To get the very best from the system though, a wideband Lambda can be used and the tuning is "real time" (I know there isn't really such a thing). With the wideband, the Evo knows where the AFR is and can target fuelling quicker AFAIK narrow band Lamda acts more like a switch and wideband returns a value over a wider range I'm guessing the Lambdas in the Guzzi are narrow band but wondered out of interest. Oh and I'm pretty ignorant about this whole thing knowing only the basics, but trying to educate my aging brain, probably a losing battle.

If I had to pick one engine that contributed to defeating Germany in WWII it would be the Merlin. RR's policy under Hive's was to focus resources on development of what they knew worked, then gradually "stretch" the design. Supercharger and associated gearing being the main focus, but many many others. That's why the Griffon was so late and the Crecy never happened. From what I've read RR policy with new engines was to stick them onto the test stand run them till they broke, then take them apart fix it and run 'em again till they broke...........ad nauseum. IMHO it was brilliant leadership and vision, should Germany have developed the same strategy the allies might have been in a lot more trouble than they already were. I'm in total agreement with Phil and everything he stated in the post above To Joe's gears, got them in my LM 1000, Sport 1100i and HiCam, was it @Pressureangle who stated he felt the engine ran better? I'm of the same opinion. Valtec tensioners can have their problems too, but at the end of the day we just all weigh up the pros and cons of each offering and decide what suits us as individuals best

The Daytonas were pretty awful, suicide (self retracting) stand mounted on the front corner of the engine case. Unless you had supermodel legs, or were exceedingly tall you needed to get off the bike to put it down, balance the bike on one foot, the other being needed to push out and hold down the stand. Once on the stand the bike was unstable even gentle drops off would tip the bike forward, cause the rear wheel to lift then it was usually game over My R9T had a sidestand so short I could not lift the bike upright while astride it and had to install a longer stand. I can now lift it up off the stand, but still use a hockey puck below the foot most of the time. The "foot" that @Chris Wilson posted are commercially available (in different shapes and sizes) for BMWs from quite a few aftermarket parts providers to raise them a little and spread the load. Well documented problem that BMW just ignore.

I am begining to wonder if it's just me being too bloody anal @MartyNZ Thanks to @Lucky Phil and all his help and advice I have good oil pressure in free air on the move, around 60psi and I've marginally improved the cooling too, although if I could find a larger cooler that would work I'd use it. There isn't any cause for concern when on the move and going to try a 10/60 to see what happens. A run without the fairing to compare temp & pressure will at least tell me if the fairing is an issue or not Final thing I'm considering is a short static run up to appprox 100C sump temp. Compare sump oil temp on the dipstick and temp readings off Guzzi Diag. That'll show RHS head temp and also a touch probe onto both rocker covers. These can only be done with the bike at standstill, but would help by giving me an idea of the differences between sump, heads and head delta. If they're reasonable and nothing obvious awry, then I'll just live with it for now. The bike overheating in traffic is whole different issue and requires installation of a fan or fans across the cooler or larger fans under the fairing to induce a draught. Thanks all for the advice and time from everybody John

Thanks Chris I'll put that on my list of things to try

@Chris Wilson, that's very innovative I'd have never have thought of that in the month of Sundays. You're spot on about the belt covers, what was concieved for a the 4 valve engine was to drive a seperate cam in each head by belts, then a short pushrod/follower onto the rockers, hence the HiCam nomiker. The camshaft was replaced with a "service shaft" running at 1/2 crank speed that in turn drives the belts up to heads. It's a fantastic engine in so much as it's enormous fun to ride, but the design was rushed and flawed in a lot of ways. Many of the mistakes were addressed with the MGS but Guzzi made that a race bike, tuned it further then placed the cost out of everybody's reach. IMHO that was mistake I reckon they'd have got a lot more sales from a milder road version, not so focused with less high end components.

@Skeeve & @Lucky Phil I'm going to try to settle that debate come the summer by running the bike sans fairing and determine what temps are like. The problem with the Australia 98 bikes is only 50 or so were built and I'm willing to wager 49 of them sit in air conditioned garages or front rooms, never turning a wheel. The 93 (I think) bikes, are different, these first iteration machines were cooking (sorry) Daytonas and from my own limited experience the early Daytonas and even B kitted bikes, don't suffer from the same amount of heat rejection issues. The 93 series bikes actually have a different frame although on initial glance they appear identical, but that's an aside. It's a good idea Skeeve but I wouldn't think it would contribute much, however every little bit would help. Right now the bike has a smaller Setrab cooler installed but with dash 8 hose and full flow fittings. The cooler is mounted just above the alternator and gives slightly better temperatures in free air than the OEM which was installed below the alternator. When I say better temps of course I'm only referring to running in free air above 40mph with ambients in the low 20s C. Part install The fuel pump was relocated to where the filter was sited originally, as it's too heavy to be supported above the cooler with clips (but I'm going to look at that again) and the filter now sits above the cooler. So far the pump hasn't fried but I've no great faith it won't, hence the desire to relocate it somewhere cooler. Ideally what I want to do is relocate the coils and the only place I can see is close to the rear wheel underneath the seat to the rear where there's a little space. That would mean a long HT lead run, far from ideal. That dammed HUGE airbox hogs all the space, I can't find anywhere else. Probably the reason Magni put the coils there in the first place............desperation!!! If I could get rid of some of the shit at the front I could install a larger oil cooler and keep my dash 8 hoses and fittings. Of course that would do nothing for slow running but with the coils somewhere else, I also might have room for a fan at the rear. It's either that or series up the OEM which is far from ideal as it's back to dash 6 fittings and banjos, which IMHO is just horrible. John

This the thread you're referring to @Lucky Phil on COG (I'm still awaiting approval to join the Guzzi Forum DE) http://www.centauro-owners.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2752 If it is that's interesting for sure but he certainly has problems John

Must have made an arse of the last tests, no clue but apologies Just reran the tests, Cold Engine, Air Filter in place throttle body butterflies WOT Right 160psi Left 145psi Seems reasonable enough to me. Left isn't great but no real cause for concern, unless other beg to differ.

Plugs

I agree Chuck but it also struck me as very strange that both sides were identical to within a few psi. It's a decent tester too not a really cheap one I'll try it again to check, I could also try a wet compression test, which I haven't tried. Can't do a leak down as I don't have access to shop air unfortunately as that's really what I'd like to try Better do that before I empty the sump, which I was just about to do, to start looking at cooler pipe runs

@Kevin_T I've only done a compression test on a cold engine and the pressures were identical on both sides at 135psi give or take a psi or so. The throttle was wide open, I was expecting at least another 10psi and thought it low. There does not appear to be any oil transfer to the cylinders/throttle bodies nor crankcase pressurisation so I ASS-ume the rings are doing what they're meant to and nothing is passing. I really need to check it on a warm engine but it's pretty dammed chilly outside at the moment. Generally spark plugs tend to be black on the sooty or ocassionally wet side, from what I understand the engine runs rich not lean. It has a Creedon chip in it currently I was going to ask why remove the indicators, but looking I see they are partially in the way of the cooling ducts, so reckon that's what you're thinking about @Chris Wilson the black was just for aesthetics, white would have been technically the correct colour to choose, but at the time of sending the pipes out for coating I didn't know about the degree of engine overheating taking place and the prrimary reason was not engine temp but to reduce underfairing (and the fairing itself) temps. Of course you're right about radiant heat, I always hated heat ransfer as a subject. Anyway as I've said I don't think there is much else I could do to insulate the pipes apart from maybe getting them coated white, but IMHO it's tinkering around the edges. I ran both coolers seperately in tests, the OEM cooler sits lower and is spaced further from the pipes. The result of that was a small increase in temp even though the OEM is larger. Re fans I'll need to look at positioning again and if it would be possible to get something behind the cooler. Last time I looked at this, I tried to move the cooler forward a little then I had clearance at the rear but at higher fork compression the cooler would have come into contact with the front wheel. Ideally if I could relocate the coils moving them rearwards (they sit above and behind the cooler) I could install a larger cooler, but that's not exactly easy either. They were mounted there in the first place (by Magni and Guzzi) because there's precious little other places to put them. John

You're probably right @Chris Wilson So the theory is to increase cylinder scavenging? AFAIK ceramic coating is more effective than lagging and the exhaust system already has that along it's full length, both internally and externally. Personally I don't think it makes much (any?) difference to exhaust gas temp or scavenging. It reason I did it was in an effort to keep faing temps and everything enclosed therein, lower......................but for good or bad it has already been done I don't think the exhaust headers' radiant heat impact on the oil cooler(s) when on the move, heat will be drawn rearwards. Crawling or stopped in traffic is a different issue

I don't think it would make much difference, TBH & if anything might make thing marginally worse. I suppose it depends on whose cool aid you drink. The argument AFAIK for lagging is to keep the exhaust gas hot increasing velocity and moving hot gas clear of the head quicker and to keep external temps down. I reckon if anything though all it really does is marginally detract from head cooling, by preventing heat from radiating from the head/headers, either way I don't think there's a lot in it. The bike acutally has ceramic coated pipes, inside and out, that was to keep under fairing temps down, but on reflection was probably a poor move. @Lucky Phil I hear you, you've probably given up on making suggestions to me and I understand why. As it is I'm enormously grateful as it was due to your interventions and suggestions that got me a runner in the first place 1) I'll serially pipe the coolers and see what happens 2) Run the bike without the fairings to see what happens. Based on the outcomes of 1&2 I can then either try to get a 1/2 fairing made to give me a less temperamental mount (and just store the Australia fairing) or juggle some more with the coolers. Keeps me out the pub (sometimes)

Problem with fans are space but I hear you all. @Tomchri that's my issue way too anal, most riding HiCams don't bother installing anything, just thrash the living daylights out them. Stock a lot of these engines will be running with pressure in the 40s due to the weak spring and they don't appear to self destruct (oil pump excepted) but I'm preaching to the converted you know all that already. My personal theory is the HiCam was derived from a race engine and rushed into production as Guzzi were in a bad way and needed sales fast. However they then proceeded to tune the thing to within an inch of its life. Nobody I know with the stock Daytona has issues, it's a much happier and tolerant engine, yet the C kit only amounts to around a mere 6BHP. It also didn't help in those days that quality control was nonexistant questionable. Chuck states they only gave you the Centauro assembled to ensure you got all the bits. Then there's Pete's story about the Centauro that never ran right and turned out the factory installed a C kit cam in one head and a B kit cam in the other. Thank you to all for time and suggestions John

Thanks @Chris Wilson I'll look into your ideas, you're thinking outside the box. Not sure yet if there is room inside the fairing, but even if not, mounting coolers vertically could well provide me other options so it's appreciated Could you give me a link for that cooler, I'm intrigued. John