dlaing

But that is the K&N's self cleaning feature.

Ratchet, What makes you think the BMC filters out more dirt? I suspect the weave of the cotton is tighter.

From what I can tell, max power for each RPM above 4000 RPM occurs at WOT. Below about 2500 RPM, I am pretty sure it occurs at less than WOT. Between 2500 and 4000 RPM, all bets are off. These fuel injected bikes are very different than carbed guzzis. My V65 would sometimes find its top speed at 7000RPM and WOT and sometimes at the same RPM, but with a little less throttle. But my V11 is very simple to drive...you wanna go fast, downshift, hit the gas, WOT. Some do it even more simply.....they cruise at 5000RPM, and then when they want to go fast, the just hit the gas, no downshifting required. One of my pet peeves is that the dyno tuners tune at 2000RPM and WOT, which just seem plain silly if not harmful to the engine.

Cool setup! If I were you, I'd be sure to take advantage of monitoring the cylinder head temperature. Exhaust Gas Temperature is probably even more important, but more expense... I never examined the details of the AuxBox. It opens up a lot of possibilities.

Articles showing more power for paper filter than BMC http://www.svrider.com/articles/2000jul_tybt.htm http://www.rc51.org/dyno/bmc.htm And dyno charts from BMC http://www.bmcairfilters.com/VisDyno.asp

Sounds like a plan! My tentative goal is more conservative. I want to keep everything somewhere around 12.8 to 13.9. I think going outside those bounds may not be good for our air cooled engine. But Derek has certainly taught me not to treat O2 numbers as an accurate representation of true A:F. Driveability is the final criteria. My stainless steel Bung plugs will arrive before New Years Eve! I'll have to grind them down, and have them welded on. And then back to shopping for a WBO2 controller and sensor...

Peet's Major Dickensons I am a big fan of UNI filters. Better filtration than paper, and more consitant flow over a year of service. Eventually I am going to rig up a cage to put the UNI universal filters in the open airbox. The one thing I don't like about them is that the foam (polyurethane?) eventually disintegrates. So it is best to have some mesh under the foam, just in case, and to replace the filters every few years. My other concern is that they might act like a big sponge in the rain and bog down the engine. I might have to go back to snorkles. But the sewerpipe fix, might make that more exceptable. EDIT okay that is two things I don't like about the UNI.

I think Todd Eagan's dyno tests showed pods and air box lid, were both bad for power. Open airbox lid was best, and it did not matter if the filter was paper or K&N for power or flow. Nobody spends much time at WOT, so pods are probably fine, so maybe someone should start making paper pods, hmmm, I am going to talk to Melitta and Mr. Coffee about adapting their coffee filters. I'll bet a pair of Melitta No. 4s would look sweet! OOOOooooo and the stickers, so Italian!

Mercy! There, I said it.. I am the loser, based on shear numbers of opinions, even if I am right If anyone else wants to take up the fight to defend the importance of tuning at WOT, you are on your own. I GIVE UP. Hey, I'll bet you can all save 5% on your dyno tuning bills by not tuning for WOT! Who cares if your true A:F ratio at WOT is 16:1!?! Brian only gained 7.7 HP at ~4200RPMs, and he probably spends less than 0.00002% of the time there, so it is pretty close to useless. EDIT But Brian did say, "and to get rid of the flat spot in the WOT accelleration mode. bier.gif" Sorry, I started debating again, after saying Mercy. I'll just shut up now, and find something better to do, like dinner.

The napoleons image blurs from the vibration much more than the OEM mirrors, but you can set them so that you can spot Lance Armstrong streamling two feet behind your taillight. More Napoleons can be seen here: http://www.tanax.co.jp/products/mirror/napoleon.html albeit in Japanese

Oh, so the truth is out! you bought a power commander. Now we know, you are a zealot of sorts. But not so much as to go walking into the tuning link abyss blind folded. Now I feel a little better. I wonder if Todd will let me borrow a dynometer. I swear I won't keep the dynometer for as long as Ratchet has borrowed that map.

If you just use the original rubber insert method, it works great for sucking the vibes out of the hands, but the mirror image is very fuzzy because of vibration. I might try one of the other methods. Thanks for the posts

Oh, I see how it is. You are just here to mock us(me). That's okay. I'll get the pinging out of my well tuned(I swear) bike soon enough... 40MPG a little later... 80SOAHP (Seat Of Ass Horse Power) later still... maybe some saddle soahp will do the trick I'll bet I have spent twice as much as ratchet and still have less of a bike. Lets see, 11,000 plus about 1000 in parts and service at Sonny Angel Motorcycle, plus 2xxx for Ohlins forks, plus 60 for shock spring, plus 2xx for tuneboy, plus 3xx for pciii, plus 220 for dyno, plus 850 for QuatD, plus 200 for convertibars, plus 200 for Corbin, plus 80 for new battery, plus 1xx for battery charger, plus 70 for a bike jack, plus 60 for napoleons, plus some crash repairs, oil, gaskets, chemicals, beer, and 3000 for the DSL to connect to this !$%$#^#!#$ Forum. Todd is right, I need to get out and ride more, but not as much as Al does

I guess it is kinda like choosing a religion. Santa, Mohammad, and Jesus all have something good to offer for believers. But the important thing is not to over-analyze and just have faith. Otherwise you'll be like me and spend eternity in limbo. If you choose Tuning Link or Factory Pro, you'll get better results either way...all you need is faith and $$$$, results are proportionally related. If I had more $$$$, without question, I would get the Mike Rich porting, hotter cam, Carrillo rods, lighter better pistons, engine balancing, and then head up to MotoLab and give them $2000 to tune almost every point on the map to the nearest HP. I can only imagine what a sweet ride that would be. I have little faith and less money, so I am going the DIY route....and I am getting closer to perfection. Marching forward with Derek's and Todd's advice, and with a little help from the available PCIII maps on the internet, I march forth like a soldier in to war, wearing a crucifix, star of david, ahnk, Om, star and moon of Islam, etc. Ratchet, I think TuneBoy has your DIY name written all over it.

None of the WideBand kits that I saw specified a Stainless Steel bung, so I placed an order for a pair of stainless steel bungs and plugs here: http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/ProductDe....asp?RecId=4637 Still have to figure out which one to buy. I guess whichever one I can get a good deal on. I already lost three bidding wars on eBay. But I am in no hurry since by the time I get the plugs installed there may be new models on the market.

Now I have done it! The Admin is going to censor the thread. Let me mend it:

For more fun you should go read the ECU thread. Didn't Todd create the SW list? I have to blame him for something worse than underglorifying WOT, creating a forum for glorifying WAR. Sorry Todd, if I got out of line. I am just a Patriot for WOT. I'd love to replace my love for WOT with a love for peaceful knee draggin' But I am a pansy assed, chicken stripped, neo-conservative rider. but that does not mean I am not a patriot.

another thought on optimizing for an extra 2HP. The reason to do it is not only to go faster, but to be running at the "correct" mixture. If you are 2HP short of maximized HP, you could be running very lean. If you are at maximized HP, theoretically you cannot be running too lean....but there are probably exceptions to the theory.

Let us know the results! This could be interesting. Many dyno outcomes seem to defy explaination. Since you already have excellent mid-range, I wonder what the Stucchi will do for you??????

Sorry, I was wrong # SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers), USA. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 29.23 InHg (99 kPa) of dry air and 77 F (25°C). This SAE standard requires a correction for friction torque. Friction torque can be determined by measurements on special motoring dynamometers (which is only practical in research environments) or can be estimated. When estimates must be used, the SAE standard uses a default Mechanical Efficiency (ME) value of 85%. This is approximately correct at peak torque but not at other engine operating speeds. Some dynamometer systems use the SAE correction factor for atmospheric conditions but do not take mechanical efficiency into consideration at all (i.e. they assume a ME of 100%). # STD or STP Another power correction standard determined by the SAE. This standard has been stable for a long time and is widely used in the performance industry. Power is corrected to reference conditions of 29.92 InHg (103.3 kPa) of dry air and 60 F (15.5°C). Because the reference conditions include higher pressure and cooler air than the SAE standard, these corrected power numbers will always be about 4 % higher than the SAE power numbers. Friction torque is handled in the same way as in the SAE standard. So, that may explain why Brian got more power on the earlier runs....so much for my temperature theory.

But if an air-cooled bike, like the Guzzi V11, and a water-cooled bike with the most state of the art ECU and thermostat, are dyno'd at 80ºF and then at 30ºF, I would think the power readings for the water cooled bike MIGHT be accurate to 1% or better, but the air-cooled bike might read 85 corrected HP at 80ºF with an optimal engine temperature for producing power, while at 30ºF the engine may never reach the optimal temperature to reach the same corrected HP, and may only put out 80 corrected HP. Oh, at you asked about STD. I am not sure, but I think it implies standard HP as measured, without corrections for weather conditions. STD is printed Brian's earlier Dyno Graphs.

I could recognize that the Quat-D's lost top end cost me top speed. Following you back from the prescott rally a few years ago, I pulled over to zip up my tank bank. I got stuck behind several big rigs and could not pass for a while. When it came time to pass, I was WOT, and cruising, if you could call it that at between 100 and 110 Veglia MPH for about 15 minutes. If I had had another 2HP, I would know the difference in that situation. Not by the seat of the pants, but by knowing what the top speed should be. It was a bitch to keep up with you guys, and that is what pushed me to trade in the Quat-D for Mistrals and MAYBE ten more HP, so that I could get MAYBE 10 more MPH (Not to suggest that that is the proportional relationship between HP and top speed) Yes, at all throttle settings including WOT. You appeared to be one who doesn't care about correct mapping at WOT. Sure the importance of WOT power is overblown by old school dyno operators, who just wanted to sell product, with minimal tuning for maximum gains on the chart. But that does not mean WOT power is undesirable or unimportant. I dyno tuned my bike using Tuning Link, including pulls at WOT, because I wanted to optimize the A/F, because it is critical, of course. Showing power outputs was secondary. Statements like the following, rather than being correct, seem to come from a rebellion against old school of marketing that the only that matters is maximized WOT power on the dyno chart. "Every peak power "pull", as shown, is at 100% throttle... which is NOT the strong point of the PCIII." Peak power optimization is a strong point of the PCIII, just not its strongest. "PEAK POWER MEANS VERY LITTLE IN THE REAL WORLD PAST BRAGGING RIGHTS." I still think peak power at every RPM means alot. I would agree that peak power at one particular RPM means very little. "I can assure you, you spend less then 2% of the life of your bike so far, at 100%. The entire rest of the map is 98% more critical, agreed." I disagree with the proportional representation. WOT optimization is very important because it is where the engine works hardest and it is the greatest limiter to how fast the bike is in a straight, unobstructed line. Only if you beg for mercy Sounds like we have one more thing to agree upon.

Just because I spend most of the elsewhere does not mean that it is proportionally less critical. When I am at WOT, I want the 2HP. If I am at half throttle and need an extra 2HP, I just give it a little more throttle. I want my bike remapped everywhere to ensure the proper mixture for rideability and engine longevity. If I am riding with 16 to 1 Air Fuel ratio, at cruising and at WOT, which is more critical? the Cruising throttle position or the WOT throttle position? One of them is more likely to burn a valve. Which one, I don't know, but I do know enough not to brush off the importance of tuning for WOT.

You should have bought a Ural

Joe Camarda has a set Leo Vince Ti ovals (slightly damaged) $375 plus shipping from Modesto CA USA 95350 If it interests you, See the classifieds.