dlaing

No doubt the FJO is a good one. You say Innovate and TechEdge are near the top of the lists. Are the Wide Band Commander, Wego II, PLX and Zeitronix on any of these lists? You brought up a good point about accuracy. So If we compare sample scan rates, wide band commander up to 10/second logging innovate 12/second logging tech edge 2BO 10/second logging analogue inputs sampled at 10bit up to 40/second Wego II 8000 points of logging, maximum 3 hours. If you set to 1/sec you get 8000 seconds or 2.222hours of logging. They recommend setting to 5/sec to 1/sec for road tests, and 10/sec for dyno tuning. PLX 10/second 90 minute logging zeitronix 74/second logging 9 hours! EDIT Sorry there is no onboard logging. The Zeitronix requires a computer or Palm. See their website for which Palms are compatible. The Palm software is $79, and you might need a special serial cable. FJO 200/second but you need a computer while testing For me, I need onboard logging, so that excludes the FJO, unless they come out with something new. Wide Band Commander I am crossing off my list because it needs more logging time and a lower price, but they do a good job of making the process less intimidating. Tech Edge is off my list, because the motorcycle model does not have onboard datalogging, and the model with data logging seems to fall short of the competition. But I could see why one could be drawn to the open source software. Innovate looks pretty good and has the best documentation if you weed through its disorganized arrangement of a web site. The price/feature value could be better. I am leaning towards: Wego II as it looks very rugged and nice logging options, but it could have more logging time at high sample rates. PLX for its great features, USB2, fast processor, and good logging duration. PLX is the only unit that looks like it is from the 21st Century! Zeitronix for low price per feature and awesome logging duration (EDIT sorry, no on-board logging)and sample rate...but it looks cheaply built, lcd screen is small, and documentation looks lousy. But Palm or Windows software is available.

Good catch! I should have guessed the 9 hours of logging was too good to be true... As for compatibility with the ECU, I don't think any of these devices are compatible. They all hook up to the battery and the oxygen sensor, and if you need feed back for rpm and throttle position, you hook to the coil and the TPS wires. Other sensors would require tapping into the wires instead of the ECU. Although TechnoResearch certainly has the capability of turning the Digital Dashboard into a module for these devices...but I would not hold my breath waiting for them. When they said 'When using Analog Wideband Output make sure your favorite engine management system is compatible with the AFR/V' I think they were implying a datalog module, gauge, or a closed loop feedback system (which could be an ECU, just not ours...but maybe the MY15M)

Now that I think about it, the sensor is actually measuring the end product, so when they say the range is AFR 21.0 to 9.5 Wideband, I think they are talking gasoline, as alcohol has more oxygen in it than gasoline, which is why in needs to be richer... So 9:1 Alcohol has about the same exhaust content of 14:1 gasoline.....well maybe not the same, but well within the range of the sensor.

I'm guessing that may be a more or less ignorable limitation of the sensor. But PLX indicated the following regarding the R-300: It was the only model that I noticed addressed ethanol

OK I figured it out! They changed the slope slightly between the Quadrilaterals and the Triangles. The Quadrilaterals have a 2 in 5 rise while the triangles have a 3 in 8 rise producing angles, if my calculations are correct, of 68.2 and 69.4 degrees respectively...So the image is misleading and the figures underlap in the 5 x 13 + 65 image, but overlap because they drew the lines fat.

OK all you cheapskates, looky here: http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/zt2/zt2.htm I think I have found the holy grail!

OK, kiss everything I just posted above goodbye and check this out http://www.plxdevices.com/R-300_productinfo.htm Everything the others have and MORE! (actually you still have to buy the the bung or boss and plug...) They also have some other models, but this one is a great deal!!! EDIT wellllll don't kiss the others good bye as this one is not very weather resistant.

A few years ago, there was not much on the market. K&N made a narrow band sensor fed fuel mixture gauge that probably worked ok for keeping you from going far too lean...but determining the right mixture was a pipe dream. But now there are Wide Band Oxygen sensors and data loggers that can record RPMs, Throttle Positions, and theoretical Air to Fuel Ratio. Aside from Cliff Jeffrie's My15M it looks like there are four major brands with various options: DynoJet's Wide Band Commander http://www.widebandcommander.com/ Innovate Motorsports http://www.motorsportsinnovations.com/wide_band_o2.htm Tech Edge http://wbo2.com/ Daytona Sensor LLC Wego II http://www.daytona-sensors.com/WEGO2.html DynoJet's WBC offers one kit for $529 US that can log without a computer for about ten minutes. It features an oxygen sensor, boss and plug, all the cables you need, a gauge, and a data logger with USB output. You may wish to buy a switch to control when it logs....since you only get ten minutes. The RPM reading comes from one of the coils terminals. The TPS reading comes from Innovate has many options to choose from : They have : WB-784 for only $199 It is an LC-1 Standalone wideband controller, consisting of an WBO2 sensor Cable and software. ... but you need a computer or something to read and or record the data. For another $200 -$229 you can add a guage to read but not record WB-750 Innovate LM-1 Wide Band O2 kit $349 The standard LM-1 includes a Bosch wideband oxygen sensor and cable, cigarette-lighter adapter, serial cable for PC connection, 9V battery, exhaust bung and plug, CD and manual. The LM-1 ships with a Bosch sensor, however, it can also function with other wide-band sensors, including Honda/NTK and VW sensors (I suspect this does not have rpm reading and possibly not a TPS reading) WB-770 Innovate RPM kit combo $429 This kit includes the LM1 wide band O2 kit and the RPM converter . Innovate #3724 (I suspect this does not have a TPS reading) WB-773 Innovate Aux kit combo $589 This kit includes the LM-1 with AuxBox Innovate #3756 All the kits with LM-1 have 44 minutes of onboard logging! The Tech Edge appear to be price competiive, especially in kit form. But my impression is they may be the least weather resistant...I could be wrong. The 2CO does not support on board logging and needs a meter or someting to read or log. The 2EO does not support on board ogging but has an A:F LED readout. The WBO is the full featured model, but only has about 2 minutes of onboard logging Price is about $330 US but you need to buy your own WBO2 sensor. (VW specialists are supposed to be the cheapest source) And if you want a guage it will cost somewhere around 100 to 200 us dollars EDIT I missed the 2A1. In a kit that includes logging, sensor and seperate gauge, the price is about $475US Daytona Sensors WEGO II may be the best deal at $425 TPS input, RPM input, bung, wires, meter, and sensor all included, plus the onboard logging is good for TWO HOURS!!! There may be more issues to uncover. The sensors may need calibration and while Tech Edge and Innovate support calibration

Gthyni, you should make sure the WBO2 sensors are compatible with Ethanol. On one forum, some asked if it was compatible with Alcohol and the answer was, a long as it is methanol....sorry. EDIT I SEARCHED AND SEARCHED AND COULD FIND NO PROBLEM WITH ETHANOL AND WBO2...ON THE CONTRARY, IT SHOULD BE FINE. LEADED FUEL IS ABOUT THE ONLY FUEL THAT WILL KILL IT. PS more power to your green thoughts! FWIW my goal is to increase fuel efficiency by 15% My guess is that pollution will be reduced even more if I can accomplish it. Plus my cruising range will increase and in just a few years, the savings on fuel will pay for my TuneBoy!!!! (the datalogger may take longer)

It now supports RPM logging. Atleast they describe how to use it in the tutorial....but it it marked "new" so, you were correct before they improved it. I am going to start a WBO2 options thread...

Regarding the fuel pressure adjustment, I think somebody on the forum tried it and discovered the range of adjustability was not great, but you may be able to increase it by hooking the breather hose to the intake manifold and the ambient air side of the pressure regulator....but this will really throw off the map. I find it difficult to compare all the WBO2 sensor options: Here is another one http://www.widebandcommander.com/ From what I can tell it is the best for road testing and the equivalent from innovate might be the LM-1with LMA-3 and XD-1...or is just a Standalone Gauge kit eqivalent LC-1 and XD-1(ie does it have built in loggin?) ????????

But more importantly, I am feeling really stupid because I can't figure this one out....

Slug! Great stuff in that directory!

Alright! Now if they just give it a laid down twin, I'll go no money down on her! ...or atleast get rid of some of that plastic covering the beautiful engine....but that should be an easy fix

He is kind of like Johnny Carson, but without the brain cells and sense of humor.... But I have to admit, I'd pick the wood door over the red door....Is the the hidden message that the commie RED door is the right door????? This just blows my mind!!!

No wonder they have had financial troubles. They probably have a perectly adequate wind tunnel and yet they probably shelled out lotsa lyra to rent or buy a bigger wind tunnel. Gimmme a break.

Here are some definition of Gangsta which further illuminate why this gang must be put down like a rabid dog: 1. gangsta link send redefine 495 up, 113 down A sociopathic member of the inner-city underclass, known primarily for being antisocial and uneducated. Also known for ready access to illegal drugs and weapons, and staggeringly poor marksmanship. "Yo, this gangsta loses his cheeba out his jeans, an' he thinks somebody snatched it, so he tries to cap my holmes wit a 9 and miss all 10 rounds. Killed two girls in tha' playground, though - that nigga be gang-sta as @#!#$#, yo." Source: charlie, Jan 24, 2003 2. gangsta link send redefine 292 up, 73 down One who willfully promotes and participates in destructive and self-serving culture in an effort to project a particular image of 'toughness' or to make oneself intimidating. Willingness to blatantly and horrifically misuse English is a necessity, as is a low IQ and sub-par education (or at least the appearance thereof). "I'd love to be a gangsta, but I fear I'm not stupid enough." Source: I don't like 'gangstas', can you tell?, Mar 5, 2003 10. Gangsta link send redefine 13 up, 7 down This is the 'cool' inner-city pronunciation of gangster and indicates a wannabe attitude, i.e. trying to look tough when you're not. Them gangstas think they all phat and shit, cuz they got the bling-bling, but they stole all their shit from their mama's boy friend, who, by the way, REALLY is a gangster. Source: daddio, Mar 21, 2003

No, it is because they are as white as Tennistas underneath their facade....plus BFG just begs to be picked on.

Interesting! So, both the suspension and steering damping should be compliant for basically the same reason of reducing the transference of energy to the bike. It is interesting how that is true, but that the other dynamics are reversed. In suspension damping, you want the compression damping to actually lessen the higher the velocity is. In steering damping, you want the damping to increase the higher the velocity is. On a seperate tangent, does the Bitubo push the handlebar to the left or right? I seem to recall it pushes the steering as if you were countersteering or pushing with the right hand. This is observable if you have the bike on a rack with the front wheel in the air. If this is the case, could the force be strong enough, that I am forced to sit a little to the left of center?????

I can imagine why it works better for the high amplitude but, why would it worsen low amplitude oscillations?

Were you Tampering with BFG's Scretled Tampon?

And I keep running into the Knights that say Ni! Just kidding! EVERYBODY'S opinions, experiences, thoughts, facts, etc. are appreciated and useful, despite the disagreements. The point that keeps nagging at me is Todd's saying: So, at this point I know I can make it run more agreeably by merely enrichening and retarding the timing. Pinpointing where to do it is trickier. And maximizing power is even more tricky, if not impossible. Right now, I am judging where to change the mixture by looking at other maps, listening to the engine for hints of leanness, feeling for vibration that may indicate leaness or one cylinder running weaker. Even the pinging could be one cylinder running weaker. (Or actually the stronger cylinder pinging because of increased load) I am running 87OCTANE so that when I move back to 91, I can guarantee no pinging. I used to be able to nearly perfectly balance my V65 carbs by ear....but I can't do it with this bike. So, I think I need a little more feed back from the bike to tell me what to do. An oxygen sensor, two bung holes, and datalogger will probably be around 500-600 US Dollars. I expect the price for this to fall within a couple years and right now, it is out of my budget. But for only 169 US dollars, I can get a TechnoResearch Digital Dashboard, that reads out many of the ECU parameters, so I can drive along and make a note that at 80% throttle and 5100 RPMs and 25C air and 50C engine the bike pinged or felt too rich, or vibrated, or lacked power. This is easier than trying to read the marks on my throttle grip while motoring along... Although maybe I could just hook up a cheap digital 0.00 to 20.00 volt meter to the TPS.

My problem is a broken memory I might give it more than two clicks if I could reliably remember to unclick it.

I have a 2000. I set the bitubo to minimum unless exceeding 99MPH, in which case I just give it two clicks...just for insurance, even though it "feels" stable with it off. Much more than two clicks and I worry I might lose it pulling up to the gas pump