teslas killing Motorcyclists

[gstallons]

I could NEVER figure out why one of my riding partners would ride next to the edge of the road and he could ride a 2x4 for 150 miles . I started following his habit to stay away from traffic . If I am in the left lane I don't want anyone on my righthand side. There have never been more factors to consider than there are now

[audiomick]

5 hours ago, p6x said:

The motorcyclist is legally going at 300 km/h, however a vehicle in front of him failed to notice him prior to changing lane at 120 km/h.

The motorcyclist can't avoid the collision.

He should have seen that coming.

Trucks are only allowed to do 80 km/h on the Autobahn. Everyone knows that. There are far too many drivers who seem to think that anything over the speed they choose to drive at is far too fast. There are also far too many who seem to believe that putting on the blinker to change lanes gives them right of way, although the road law states that the onus is on the driver who is changing lanes to make sure he doesn't hinder anyone.

All in all, that means when you are approaching a bunch of cars with a truck in the middle, you "know" that some prick is going to pull out in front of you. If you get past without it happening, you were lucky.

Don't get me wrong, that's not old-fart-preaching. It is just real-world experience.

The law states that the bloke on the bike was in the right. My experience with "my accident" makes me think that, despite that, the damages settlement will probably give him 25 or 30% of the blame. In my case, I was overtaking a line of cars, and someone pulled out in front of me to turn into a side road. Techinically, I was 100% in the right, but the blame was determined at 25% for me and 75% for the other bloke.

Anyway, what I'm getting at is that anyone who has spent any time at all on the Autobahn here should have seen that coming. It happens all the time, i.e. that some idiot will pull out in front of much faster traffic.

The bloke on the bike was legally in the right, but I suspect he was too keen on getting a good video to concentrate on riding sensibly. And by that, I don't mean "not at 300 km/h", I mean simply observing the dynamic of the traffic ahead.

[p6x]

@audiomick

Those unlimited German autobahn always are a magnet to your European neighbors. I remember that German drivers were really observant of traffic, each time I was there.

I suspect that habits have changed there too. Concentrating on driving is no longer compulsory.

Well, here at least you never expect anyone to use their turn indicator. That keeps you on your toes. It is not so much the brake lights of the car in front of you may indicate a left or right turn, but the same is true for the incoming traffic. You can't see the brake lights, and the driver may be cutting your lane to turn. This is something I had to learn. In France, you can never cut a continuous lane to turn. Here, continuous lanes only indicate you cannot overtake. But you can turn if you want to. It is more accident prone, but that's the rule.

I found that when speed is involved, even if you are not the one who made the mistake, you have to share the responsibility since the insurance always assumes you may have been able to avoid the accident. But this is new. The unspoken rule, is that you have to do defensive driving, and help to prevent other's mistakes.

Well, on our motorcycles, we know it is part of survival.

I expect that traffic rules are going to be less and less respected. I think people wear out of abiding by the rules. I can see this where I live. There is a school nearby. When school buses unload the children, they have those stop signs that come out. All traffic must stop.

Today, some cars just proceed! no more respect...

[mikev]

I was listening to Lex Freidman podcast with Walter Isaacson and they were talking about Tesla, particularly Elon Musk's decision to remove ladar from tesla cars auto-pilot.  Its a somewhat controversial decision, forcing the car to use only visual data to make decisions about driving, similar to humans.  

[audiomick]

2 hours ago, mikev said:

... ladar...

That's this, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidar

 

If they couldn't get it to work right, it should be removed. At least until it is reliable.

If the decision to leave it out was "planning by budget", it was a wrong decision. Such systems need to have everything possible to make them reliable, no matter what the cost.

[p6x]

There is an article published by the Washington Post today, Sunday Dec 10th, 2024.

The title reads:

Quote

Tesla drivers run Autopilot where it's not intended with deadly consequences

Here's a link to the article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/12/10/tesla-autopilot-crash/

I don't think it will surprise anyone here that some of the Tesla owners would do that. I am guessing some actually purchase Tesla's for the feature. Possibly they misunderstand the limits of the "Autopilot", or because they are prepared to ignore safety over their own benefit? maybe Tesla should rename "Autopilot" to something such as "Driver's assistance"? so there would be less of a misunderstanding? obviously, the marketing impact would not be the same.

I do not think we should be surprised given the state of how courtesy, decency, civism have become. As motorcyclists, we get an example every day.

The worse part of it? I don't think it is going to improve any time soon. Individualism seems to prime on everything else nowadays.

 

[activpop]

44 minutes ago, p6x said:

There is an article published by the Washington Post today, Sunday Dec 10th, 2024.

The title reads:

Here's a link to the article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/12/10/tesla-autopilot-crash/

I don't think it will surprise anyone here that some of the Tesla owners would do that. I am guessing some actually purchase Tesla's for the feature. Possibly they misunderstand the limits of the "Autopilot", or because they are prepared to ignore safety over their own benefit? maybe Tesla should rename "Autopilot" to something such as "Driver's assistance"? so there would be less of a misunderstanding? obviously, the marketing impact would not be the same.

I do not think we should be surprised given the state of how courtesy, decency, civism have become. As motorcyclists, we get an example every day.

The worse part of it? I don't think it is going to improve any time soon. Individualism seems to prime on everything else nowadays.

 

People seem to be oblivious to driving laws and respect on the road today whatever you are driving. I drive a motorcycle, car and truck, often towing a trailer. I realize what towing does to my stopping distance and drive with great attention to what is in front of me. Other drivers are always cutting me off no matter what the type of vehicle you are in. It is attribitable to a few reasons. I think mostly they see the room to fit, and move into it without a care in the world about what is behind them. They are totally oblivious.  Or it could be the fact that they just have the "I dont give a hoot about anybody else but me" attitude, which is on full display anytime I am on the Interstate. 

A portion of the general public just doesn't have the necessary skills or care to be a safe respectful driver. That will never change. Add "auto pilot" and other fancy options to a car that require the owner to just read the directions and the driving environment becomes more risky for everyone. Something like what is being mentioned here requires a bit more than thumbing through the manual.

[activpop]

Oh, and I forgot to throw texting into the mix. Too many times I'm stuck behind someone doing 10 mph under the limit, and as I pass I notice the reason.

[Speedfrog]

Not to add fuel to the fire, but here is another pointed report on how Tesla unleashed its half baked (BETA) self driving system to the public and the dire consequences of its misuse by unsuspecting drivers. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/?itid=lk_interstitial_manual_15

We are all road users, you can make what you want of these reports, I personally find them to be compelling and an eye opener on how an automaker with an unregulated emerging technology, gets free to run what is essentially still an experiment on public roads.

[gstallons]

IF I were going to use any system like this , it would be a secondary and not a primary device . I am old enough to understand , I am the responsible party , not a program or feature .

[p6x]

On 12/11/2023 at 2:36 AM, Speedfrog said:

Not to add fuel to the fire, but here is another pointed report on how Tesla unleashed its half baked (BETA) self driving system to the public and the dire consequences of its misuse by unsuspecting drivers. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/interactive/2023/tesla-autopilot-crash-analysis/?itid=lk_interstitial_manual_15

We are all road users, you can make what you want of these reports, I personally find them to be compelling and an eye opener on how an automaker with an unregulated emerging technology, gets free to run what is essentially still an experiment on public roads.

It seems that Tesla caught the draft, and they are now pushing an update

Quote from the Washington Post this morning:

Quote

Tesla recalls 2 million cars with ‘insufficient’ Autopilot safety controls

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/12/13/tesla-autopilot-recall/

There is also mention of that recall in the New-York Times; same title and stating that software updates were pushed to cars on Tuesday, following an investigation by traffic safety officials.

The only car I drove with driver's assistance had a safety feature that obliged the driver to keep his/her hands on the steering wheel at all times, else the assistance would disengage immediately. Besides that, the assistance would only be available with cruise control activated.

 

[LowRyter]

TV said recall will be done OTA with software update.  

[Joe]

The recall is way overdue, hopefully they will correct the issue completely and move on. I've driven a Model Y for about 5 months and had at east 3 software updates, its part of the ownership experience similar to owning a I-phone. Its a computer that happens to operate a car. 

[guzzler]

"It's a computer that happens to operate a car....."

Yep, and one with potentially deadly consequences WHEN it has a hissy fit...

Think I'd rather be master of my own destiny.

Cheers HAL ...ha ha 

[p6x]

Quote

Recalling almost every Tesla in America won’t fix safety issues, experts say

Tesla’s software update addresses “insufficient” driver monitoring for Autopilot — but the fixes don’t stop drivers from misusing the technology.

So what will?