JGP Posted June 14 Posted June 14 2 hours ago, docc said: (Italian) glue + bubblegum = olive oil Pretty sticky. Until the first time it heats up . . . Yeh, does not stand the test of time. BTW your electronic cleaner trick works like a charm. Good find. 1
Chuck Posted June 15 Posted June 15 On 6/14/2025 at 8:38 AM, pete roper said: Even if it was a genuine Surflex response I’d be wary. The Surflex plate splineform are wrong and their hardening, at least on the twin plate plates, which I would imagine would use the same centres as the single plate, have for years, nay decades, been woefully poorly hardened leading to the splines chopping out in short order. I can provide plenty of photographic proof if needs be but it would be a chore to find and I can’t be bothered. Anyway, simply a word of warning from long experience. I’d rather trepan myself with a butter knife than use them in one of my bikes……. When I took over the care of the G5, it had a fairly new Surflex clutch. After replacing the clutch, flywheel, transmission input gear, it was as good as new. 1
JGP Posted June 16 Posted June 16 I am not sure if anyone has noticed the same, or has any thoughts on this, but there are 12 bolts in the single plate clutch. 6 bolts for the flywheel, 6 bolts for the ring gear. The parts book shows all those bolts with lock washers. In my parts book, the single plate clutch is not broken out in detail and it reflects only the dual plate version. In any event, there were no lock washers on any of those bolts. I am thinking that because they were put on with MG's "special sauce" they did not bother to put lock washers on. I am going to order washers, but I am curious if others have noticed the same. Alternatively, it may have been built on a Monday, a Friday, or the day after Grappa Day....
Lucky Phil Posted June 16 Posted June 16 2 hours ago, JGP said: I am not sure if anyone has noticed the same, or has any thoughts on this, but there are 12 bolts in the single plate clutch. 6 bolts for the flywheel, 6 bolts for the ring gear. The parts book shows all those bolts with lock washers. In my parts book, the single plate clutch is not broken out in detail and it reflects only the dual plate version. In any event, there were no lock washers on any of those bolts. I am thinking that because they were put on with MG's "special sauce" they did not bother to put lock washers on. I am going to order washers, but I am curious if others have noticed the same. Alternatively, it may have been built on a Monday, a Friday, or the day after Grappa Day.... Lock washer are an engineering abomination and of almost zero utility. I've never seen one used in aviation in my 42 year career. They are lawn mower technology. A correctly torqued decent material bolt won't loosen in use unless it's a bolt not fit for the purpose it's being used in. Just use flat washers and some blue loctite. If you must use a lock washer then use a Nord-lock washer. Phil 1 1
docc Posted June 16 Posted June 16 2 hours ago, JGP said: I am not sure if anyone has noticed the same, or has any thoughts on this, but there are 12 bolts in the single plate clutch. 6 bolts for the flywheel, 6 bolts for the ring gear. The parts book shows all those bolts with lock washers. In my parts book, the single plate clutch is not broken out in detail and it reflects only the dual plate version. In any event, there were no lock washers on any of those bolts. I am thinking that because they were put on with MG's "special sauce" they did not bother to put lock washers on. I am going to order washers, but I am curious if others have noticed the same. Alternatively, it may have been built on a Monday, a Friday, or the day after Grappa Day.... I see washers on the flywheel and toothed ring fasteners, but not "lock" washers. GU14615901, Washer 8,4 x 13 x 0,8 mm for the flywheel to crank GU14217901, Washer 6,4 x 10 x 0.7 mm for the toothed ring to the flywheel Notably, the workshop manual specifies new bolts, with medium strength Loctite, for the flywheel bolts, torque 40-42 Nm. The Workshop Manual does not specify that the "ring wheel"/ "toothed ring" requires either new bolts or thread locking agent (i.e. Loctite)
gstallons Posted June 16 Posted June 16 There are a bunch of different types of washers on the market. A person just has to decide what they want to use and use that style until they change to something else . And yes , the lock washer and flat washer used on most everything is pretty soft and just adequate. SAE flat washers and grade 8 washers are better than nothing . 1
JGP Posted June 16 Posted June 16 21 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said: Lock washer are an engineering abomination and of almost zero utility. I've never seen one used in aviation in my 42 year career. They are lawn mower technology. A correctly torqued decent material bolt won't loosen in use unless it's a bolt not fit for the purpose it's being used in. Just use flat washers and some blue loctite. If you must use a lock washer then use a Nord-lock washer. Phil Thanks for your thoughts. The ring gear bolts, for example are only torqued to 12 foot/lbs. Not high torque, so I don't believe there is a lot of stress that needs to be spread. To your point, nearly 25 years and they were solid when they came out. 1
JGP Posted June 17 Posted June 17 (edited) 12 hours ago, docc said: I see washers on the flywheel and toothed ring fasteners, but not "lock" washers. GU14615901, Washer 8,4 x 13 x 0,8 mm for the flywheel to crank GU14217901, Washer 6,4 x 10 x 0.7 mm for the toothed ring to the flywheel Notably, the workshop manual specifies new bolts, with medium strength Loctite, for the flywheel bolts, torque 40-42 Nm. The Workshop Manual does not specify that the "ring wheel"/ "toothed ring" requires either new bolts or thread locking agent (i.e. Loctite) There is, on the single-plate clutch's aluminium flywheel, a steel "donut" that mates to the flywheel under the 6 bolts. I expect, that is intended to spread the force of the bolts over the flywheel surface (30 ft/lbs). I don't know how the dual-plate is set-up. I would not expect that there is any further need for a washer on those bolts, other than a possibly a lock- washer, depending on how you feel about it. All I know is that the factory use of washers and "Loctite" is inconsistent to the parts book or the repair manual as my ring gear bolts had no washers (locking or otherwise) but did have the "special sauce" applied. Additionally, there is no gap between the inner edge of the ring gear and the outer edge of the bolt. So, any washer used would need to have the same width as the head of the bolt. The transmission mounting studs had a combination of lock-washers and washers on some studs, and no washers on others, only lock-washers. Diagram A1 of the parts book identifies one stud has having a washer (4X) and the other that has a coupling bushing as not having a washer. There are 6 studs. So, i expect what the parts book is indicating is that where there is a coupling bush, do not use a washer, as 2 studs have coupling bushes. I had only 2 washers on all the studs, every stud had a lock washer. Edited June 17 by JGP
docc Posted June 17 Posted June 17 By "lock washer", do you mean the thin, ridged Schnorr type washers? 1
Pressureangle Posted June 17 Posted June 17 14 hours ago, gstallons said: There are a bunch of different types of washers on the market. A person just has to decide what they want to use and use that style until they change to something else . And yes , the lock washer and flat washer used on most everything is pretty soft and just adequate. SAE flat washers and grade 8 washers are better than nothing . 2
Pressureangle Posted June 17 Posted June 17 14 hours ago, docc said: I see washers on the flywheel and toothed ring fasteners, but not "lock" washers. GU14615901, Washer 8,4 x 13 x 0,8 mm for the flywheel to crank GU14217901, Washer 6,4 x 10 x 0.7 mm for the toothed ring to the flywheel Notably, the workshop manual specifies new bolts, with medium strength Loctite, for the flywheel bolts, torque 40-42 Nm. The Workshop Manual does not specify that the "ring wheel"/ "toothed ring" requires either new bolts or thread locking agent (i.e. Loctite) My crank and flywheel bolts all have Schnorr washers. Looks like a trip to Harbor Freight for some rust remover. 1
footgoose Posted June 17 Posted June 17 50 minutes ago, Pressureangle said: My crank and flywheel bolts all have Schnorr washers. mine did too. when/if you get the RAM unit, would you mind posting the their install recommendations for these? I can't find mine (or anything else since my recent move) but I recall doing schnoors and loctite on my RAM install. ps. the RAM is an absolute pleasure to behold. 2
Pressureangle Posted June 17 Posted June 17 53 minutes ago, footgoose said: mine did too. when/if you get the RAM unit, would you mind posting the their install recommendations for these? I can't find mine (or anything else since my recent move) but I recall doing schnoors and loctite on my RAM install. ps. the RAM is an absolute pleasure to behold. Decided against the RAM, in the interest of both time and economy. But one never knows what's up the road. 1
JGP Posted June 17 Posted June 17 6 hours ago, docc said: By "lock washer", do you mean the thin, ridged Schnorr type washers? I do. 1
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now