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How do you ride your V11 for the best curve negotiation control? close to the tank, or close to the cowl?


p6x
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12 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Wilbers shock remote pre load adjuster. How you can sell a bike with genuine pillion capacity without a simple method of rear preload adjustment is beyond me.

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Ciao

So true! thank god, I will never carry a passenger, so I just need to find my best setup.

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11 hours ago, Tinknocker said:

My '02 LM feels "lighter" and more flickable when I put my chest on the tank pad and hugged up against it while weighting the pegs, my butt is barely touching the seat. I'm guessing 60% on tank and 40% on pegs. Almost no weight on clipons. A dramatic handling dynamic difference vs riding lazy (weight on seat and clipons). Could it be why MG put a pad on top of tank? Idk, but when I wanna play in the twisties it works for me. YMMV

You never "lean out" of the bike? I live to "drive" from the rear, a bit like Jorge Lorenzo did when he was racing. I did enjoy hugging the tank, but with my butt wedged on the cowl. But it is not comfortable long term because my legs are at an odd angle.

As for the weight on clipons, I am with you; I don't like to be too much "on the front".

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11 hours ago, fotoguzzi said:

 

"briefly up to 6000 rpm"

why just briefly? These motors love to rev.

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I try to not write anything compromising but mainly, I am still in my discovery process of this bike. I am going gradually and increase the limit bit by bit.

I am wary of anything that could go wrong. I need to get confident.

Texas is one of the best playground for 6000 rpm. Since c19, the posted speed limits seems to mean nothing anymore...

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Mine has two faces, to me; 50mph + or -. Below 50, increasingly as the speed diminishes, it rewards weighted pegs and a light touch on the bars. The handling is typically Italian, very neutral with little inclination to either fall into or stand up out of a turn. For these conditions, such as the South'n Spine Raids, I keep 30psi front and 35psi rear. I drive the front pretty hard into the turns, but truly it does like to be on the throttle better. Even in my roadracing days, I've always been a bit timid in very low speed corners compared to others. Above 50, everybody knows they're the steadiest thing on two wheels. I like the suspension a bit looser for faster work, and I tend to stay centered on the bike- because going fast enough to require hanging off is really a fool's game on public highways. For 'casual play riding' I do shift my weight a bit for psychological comfort and out of habit. 
I don't think my '97 Sport is a short frame, but I'm not certain.

FWIW if anyone has a weave in the wind or at high speed, check yourself to see if you are actually 'pulling' on the bars to counteract the wind. If you are, lean into it and get some weight back on the bars, see if that weave doesn't go away.

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1 hour ago, p6x said:

I have not yet experimented with tire pressure. Not until I settle on a tire brand and type. But this morning, I will check 38 on the front to see if it improves putting on the angle.

sorry meant to say rear at 38

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4 hours ago, Chuck said:

As far forward as you can get. Grasp the tank with your knees. No weight on the bars, elbows bent. Late turn in, flick into the corner and add power all the way through the corner. The machine wants to be stable. The less you mess with it other than adding power through the corner, the better it likes it. :grin:

It is a very good handling motorcycle..

 

This :thumbsup:.

Also I dropped the triple clamps down the forks a little.

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The V11 is the most "intuitive" bike in the fleet, requires no thinking, just feeling.  It's about as close to a point and shoot bike I've ever had...and falls very naturally into tight turns or long sweepers.  Like golf, I like to ride by feel, once you have a comfortable riding position...over thinking leads to over correction while riding.  It's the difference between playing golf and trying to correct your swing on the golf course, and leads to twitchy performance.

I saw your bike at MPH a few weeks ago when dropping off my Norge for a few maintenance items after the Cedar Vale rally, and it's a beauty.  The only thing I would suggest is make sure you're on fresh tires...Pilot Road 2's sound old...I've been running Pilot Road 4's on my Norge, Griso and Scura for years now, and they are by far the best tire for dry or wet conditions...absolutely confidence inspiring, no matter how far you lean in.  

Riding I-10 for 160 miles... might I suggest you veer off the interstate, go thru Brookshire, Cat Spring, Fayetteville (stop for pie at Orsak's cafe), hit Columbus, head to Hruska's for a coffee, and then take the backroad to Lockhart, stop for BBQ at Blacks, and then head up to Luckenbach and surrounding areas.   Plenty of roads to scrub all sides of the tires and MUCH more enjoyable than droning down I-10.

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I never have gotten what the purpose is for a steering damper?    I can only figure that it gives a little more steering resistance and serves no purpose to prevent a weave or tank slapper whatsoever.  

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14 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

I never have gotten what the purpose is for a steering damper?    I can only figure that it gives a little more steering resistance and serves no purpose to prevent a weave or tank slapper whatsoever.  

Properly adjusted, it should have little to no effect discernable by the rider. It is intended to offer minimal resistance to normal velocity steering inputs, but resist those which are too rapid and not seen in normal riding, i.e. wobbles. Consider a bucket of putty or any thick, but fluid substance. You can slowly move your fist through it from top to bottom. But try to punch through it and it becomes almost solid - fluid dynamics at work. And just so the damper resists rapid, potentially dangerous oscillations in steering input. 

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po18, I have a friction dampener on the EV, so I don't think theory holds for that. 

Since the V11 is a hydraulic, in theory, I can agree, in practice, no help with a "weave", perhaps for a true tank slapper?

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46 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

po18, I have a friction dampener on the EV, so I don't think theory holds for that. 

Since the V11 is a hydraulic, in theory, I can agree, in practice, no help with a "weave", perhaps for a true tank slapper?

I know I will come across as pedantic here, but please bear with me. Friction dampers are similar to the ancient friction shocks we see on early 20th century cars and mid-century bikes. 'Steering brakes', if you will. But they have no brain, no valving. Actually, to some extent I imagine that they work the opposite of what is intended. Max friction in such dampers occurs at zero steering speed - forks straight ahead. It takes some effort to overcome that static friction, which to some degree is good. However, once the initial resistance is broken, it cannot resist movement to the degree that it did, as the force of a tank slapper can break that friction and keep the damper moving until the fork stops are hit. Then, it simply repeats in the other direction. What they resist best is the initial rapid deviation of steering angle that is associated with wobbles. But what after the forks are swinging? 

Sliding or rotating objects are much easier to slide or rotate once the initial static friction is broken. Sliding a sofa to a new spot in the living room is a practical example. Tough to start it sliding, but much easier to keep it sliding. This is the beauty of hydraulic dampers. Their brain is crude, but they are be set to provide progressive damping of steering oscillations, which is a very good thing when at high speed. They provide low oscillation damping at low steering velocity (not to be confused with vehicle velocity) and high resistance to high velocity steering inputs from either rider or tire - it goes both ways. I have a 1966 Yamaha that has a friction steering damper. It mostly just makes the bike ungainly at low speeds, when rapid steering input helps maintain balance. Road racing bikes make good use of dampers but trials bikes, on the other hand, rely on quick and undamped steering movements so as to retain balance and negotiate seemingly impossible terrain. 

Something like that.

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Just to add a voice, I get all the way forward on the bike when I want a bit more speed and performance in the corners. I run 34psi front and 38 rear, I might try some softer front pressures based on comments above. 

In California, where the freeways have rain grooves, you can really feel the difference with and without a damper. I had an airhead BMW that would wobble like mad on those grooves, and the damper was adjustable while riding - it would instantly stabilize the bike. The V11 has better manners without the damper, so I keep mine close to the loosest setting.

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2 hours ago, LowRyter said:

po18, I have a friction dampener on the EV, so I don't think theory holds for that. 

Since the V11 is a hydraulic, in theory, I can agree, in practice, no help with a "weave", perhaps for a true tank slapper?

Truly. An important distinction between "wobble" ("tank slapper") and "weave" (that some early V11 were prone to at high speed with lateral air blast like passing a semi/tractor-trailer rig).  Increasing the steering damper damping worsened the high speed weave (without benefiting the absent corner exit "wobble".)

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So I went to Dime Box Texas, and back; about 200 miles.

This morning I did 35 psig front and 40 psig rear, and I completely loosened the dampener. I did not touch the fork.

While the 290 was kind of boring, I kept a high pace. The reward was FM1697, even if the first section from Burton had some loose gravel. There were tighter turns, and the Guzzi handled like a charm.

I only did 39 mpg, as my low gas warning light came on at 170 miles completed. Lots of fun, even if the heat was sizzling in full gear.

I have another question, but I will create another thread since it is off topic on this one.

Burton to Dime Box

 

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As I see it, a weave can be time consuming to address, unless caused by something obvious (tire pressure, tread style, or construction or even rider input). They involve much smaller steering movements, and those may fall within the velocity range of quick cornering inputs. Any damper that will stop that risks substantially altering the twisty road maneuverability and will make the bike nearly uncontrollable in a slow U-turn. Technically, a damper could be constructed (Ohlins probably has) which denotes speed, gear, RPM, trottle setting and whether the steering input is rider or wheel initiated and then decides which type of damping to apply, if any. On a different note, deceleration wobbles are very often front tire related, i.e. low pressure, cupped tread, tread pattern or compound not a good fit with the bike's geometry etc. On the Kawi EX500 forum, we see lots of complaints about decel wobbles, and that bike has very relaxed steering (27 degree rake), so front tire is one place to look, as well as steering head bearings. In Seattle they have the infamous First Avenue Bridge. It is a drawbridge with an open metal (look down and see the river) grating surface. Was not designed by or for motorcyclists. Talk about weave! Early on, I learned to relax my grip and just let the bike weave its way across. All attempts to the contrary only worsened the weave.

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