Kiwi_Roy

It may not be a relay problem, could be a dirty side stand switch allowing relay 4 to drop out resetting the ECU, try removing the stand relay R3 and stuffing a jumper in the socket between 30 and 87. This happened to my 01

The Start relay in this 2004 has terminal 30 fed from the ignition switch, I call this a weak supply. Look terminal 30 is so close to the battery on the drawing it's begging to be connected there. Chop the wire off and feed it with a direct fuse Also cut the wire off 87A and connect the two together so now when you press Start the light stays On and the engine leaps into life Turn the key Off and the light goes out If you decide you must have the lights turn off while cranking remove the headlight relay coil terminal 86 from chassis and run it to the starter, the second large terminal between main contact and the motor now while it is cranking the headlight relay coil will have 12 Volts on 85 and 86 so it will turn off. When the motor stops spinning it will turn back On because 86 is connected to chassis through the starter. Ther's more than one way to kill a cat, not just choking it with cream.

When I sketched this out it was not with Startus Interuptus in mind, it was merely to show how you can test most of the wiring from under the seat because all of the switches terminate at a fuse or relay contact. It was drawn from a 2001 VII Sport that never had a starting issue because Fuse 5 is fed directly from the battery. In Note 6 I had noticed something strange about the starter solenoid, by Ohms Law 12/0.3 should result in a current of 40 Amps, instead I measured 6 however this was after the inrush which was well over 30 Amps as I proved later when I discovered two coils in the solenoid. Getting back to Vuzzzi's modified sketch and GStallons extra relay, yes that will work for sure. The later bike will have the Start relay through the ignition switch so the original relay has a weak supply The fuse IMHO should be in the wire to 30 Having said all this you should still clean your ignition switch every 5 years or so otherwise it gets so bad it starts to cause the ECU to drop out

The OEM Ducati Energia didn't send Amps to ground, it just let the circuit go open circuit.

I thought this was worth posting here Jack of Roadstercycle warning to be careful you don't end up with a knockoff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYxtCC330Xg

I thought this was worth posting here Jack of Roadstercycle warning to be careful you don't end up with a knockoff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYxtCC330Xg

I thought this was worth posting here Careful you don't end up with a knockoff

With your new direct feed removing its largest load it shouldn't blow any more. With the old wiring as the switch got dirty the current dropped down to a point where it was taking too long to pull the solenoid in although I have no idea why it blew while running. If you look at the blown fuse it gives a clue, just a tiny gap indicates it was only mildly overloaded, a large gap indicates a short circuit. Fuse 4 also feeds Fuse 6 and 7 through the ignition switch.

You can also use a single LED with a pair of diodes to prevent cross talk, that's what I have on my loop. Here's a sketch I did for someone, In the first diagram I explain why its no problem with incandescent lamps The second diagram shows cross talk The third diagram shows how back to back diodes prevent cross talk, any small diode will do eg 1N4004. Note: All 12 Volt LEDs incorporate a series resistor to limit the current to 15 mA or less, I haven't shown these for simplicity.

The ignition switch is very easy to remove, just take a Phillips screwdriver and undo the two screws that hold the contact block to the lock (look up from below) Unclip the white plate and tilt it out. Need I say drop the battery negative off for safety. The switch also unplugs at the headstock if you want to do it on your bench. Note on this one how one wire had snapped off, the owner noticed the tail light had gone out. The wires were not fastened to the back of the switch cover, and they work hardened where they flex at the solder joint. The loom should flex evenly over it's length as you go from lock to lock, don't strap it down tight. Starter Solenoid Coils I can see your eyes starting to glaze over but this is what the starter solenoid is really like, it has two coils one that draws 10 Amps the other will draw 40+ but not with the modern wiring. (This was drawn from my 2001 VII Sport, the old Bosch starters are very similar) Nearly every bike Guzzi have pushed out the factory door will eventually suffer from Startus Interruptus all the new 1400s and miriads of V7s will fail as the CARC bikes are now and scores of owners will be turned off Guzzi all because they don't understand the problem. I have been preaching since 2012 without much impact. MPH in Houston will make a fortune selling their kits at $40 a pop, I don't begrudge them that. I have learnt to accept owners think because they pay for something it must be better than free advice LOL Cheers Roy

Locky, Look at the difference between the two diagrams around the start relay terminal 30, this one has 30 supplied directly from the battery via fuse 5 But this later bike has the start relay fed via the wimpy wires to the ignition switch and back Later is better right? Not so in this case, The former wiring has no trouble feeding 50 Amps to the starter solenoid, the Latter (weak) diagram would be lucky to get 30 on a good day, more likely 25 or Click Click AKA Startus Interruptus.. The factory screwed up, they never have to deal with a 10 year old bike with a failing ignition switch. How do you know which version you have? Pull the start relay out and measure with a Voltmeter or test light the 30 terminal of the socket to chassis (look at the layout on my sketch below) If it is 12 Volts with the key turned Off or On you have the good version If 30 is dead with the key Off you have the latter weak version As the bikes age the grease inside the switch goes hard and tends to hold the contacts apart increasing the contact resistance Pull the ignition switch apart and clean the old grease out, replace it with nice fresh Vaseline and it should crank ok for a few years OR Re-wire it like Chuck did his Scura and never have to worry about cranking again. (unless the magnets drop out of the Vaelio which they have been known to but not because of the wiring) An added bonus for re-wiring is the way the starter seems to work much better or at least it has no delay between button push and whir. I have actually measured the time difference, the former 1999 is 3 times as fast. To prove this take 3 feet of wire with a spade connector on one end, plug it onto the starter solenoid spade terminal and touch the other end on the battery. WARNING - make sure the bike is in neutral and for extra safety pull the clutch in or the bike will leap out of the garage LOL

The first diagram has the start relay supplied direct from the battery, it will deliver 40+ Amps to the starter relay each and every time. The second diagram feeds the juice through a fuse, all the way to the front of the bike through the wimpy switch and tiny wires then all the way back to the relay, it will be lucky to get 30 Amps to the starter relay, more likely low 20s. This is the sort of wiring all the modern Guzzis are fighting , MPH are selling their Startus Interruptus kits by the thousand, all it does is adds wiring to make it more like No 1 What neither of these drawings show you is the correct starter wiring, there are 2 coils inside the solenoid, one that draws 11 Amps at 12 Volts and the other that draws 48 Amps at 12 Volts When I say 40+ Amps I'm allowing for some Voltage drop. My first Guzzi was 2001 VII Sport was wired like the first one, I couldn't figure out what Startus Interuptus was all about until I took the time to measure the solenoid. The coil shown on Guzzi diagrams is the one that measures 1.05 Ohms, Measure your solenoid from the spade connector to chassis, see what you get. For a giggle Google "MPH Startus interuptus kit", makes me sad that Guzzi have been struggling with this for 40 years and are still pushing bikes out the door doomed to fail.

I think they leak through the sensor itself, in around one of the transitions between one material and another (steel to red epoxy or red epoxy to black case). Then it travels up the cable or out again between the cable and epoxy on the outside. Stick a condom on it, seriously, try glueing a disk of plastic right across the surface covering the tip. Don't stick a fat "O" ring on it, all that does is mess up the gap.

No, The headlight relay coil now has 12 Volts on one side from the ignition switch (it is no longer switched while cranking by the start relay) The other end of the coil is presently going to chassis, if you remove it from the chassis and connect it to the short jumper cable between the solenoid and the motor brush it will be grounded through the armature. While cranking it will be at 12 Volts, same as the ignition switch end so the headlight relay will drop out. This is kind of unusual wiring but it saves adding another relay just to switch the headlight off for a couple of seconds.

Make sure the Start relay terminal 30 is always alive, the cause of starting failure is usually because the factory wired the relay through the ignition switch. The factory don't show the coil that draws 40+ Amps. The wiring is not capable of supplying this current.

The only thing is now the headlight doesn't turn off while cranking, ~ 5 Amps, not a big drain when compared to the starter around 150 - 170 Amps. If you want to drop the headlight out take the ground off the headlight relay coil and run it to the starter between the main contacts and the motor. It will normally be grounded through the motor turning the lights On. When the starter is cranking the point between the main contacts and the armature will be at 12 Volts (both ends of the coil will be at 12 Volts) so the relay will drop out until you take your finger off the start button.

The Generator light is fed from headlight relay (14) 87 terminal which also supplies the oil light and several other loads including the Ducati Energy Voltage regulator (if you still have that) The headlight relay coil is fed from the 87A contact of the Start relay just above the starter (22) I think, Cut the wire off the 87A and feed it from the ignition switch (the wire that was originally on Start relay 30 if its still there)

Oops I answered that on the other thread, the 97A contact of the start relay is feeding the headlight relay or at least it's feeding the oil pressure light. Before you started the 30 contact was switched so when the 97A closed there was no power on 30 Now you know how well it cranks with a direct feed you can't go back LOL Actually it doesn't crank any better it just starts cranking when you push the button, the lag is gone because the solenoid is working how it's supposed to. Usually there are several idiot lights fed from the same switched fuse the example I used in the other post shows that also the Tach gets power as well Can you post your schematic, I will figure out the best way forward, text me a picture of it to 604 728 0966

Is fuse 3 fed direct from the battery? Is the 87A contact un-used? I don't see a Scura diagram among Carl's drawings. Here is a similar year bike where you can't do that because the 87A contact feeds the headlight relay coil' it would flatten the battery. With a small wiring change the headlight relay (22) coil could be fed from the ignition switch (jumper from 30 to 85) with the other end of the coil 86 to downstream of the main solenoid contact instead of to chassis so it turns off the lights while cranking or just leave the light On. Look what a torturous path the Start relay 30 takes on this bike, an early sufferer, I would provide a new fuse direct from battery positive. The main thing is to get as much current to the start relay as possible while making sure it won't crank with the key Off. The Valeo Solenoid will pull over 40 Amps if its fed properly.

If its not priming you are not getting power to the ECU relay (49) via the single way connector (57) This also explains why the starter will not turn over, no power at the Start button (35) The Sidestand switch or side stand relay is where I would start looking. Note how the side stand switch (known point of failure) feeds power to the Kill Switch. When in Neutral the relay bypasses the switch. Your lemans wiring may be a little different than this but the same basic idea, pull the Stand relay and poke a wire in the socket 30 to 87, note some bikes use the 87A contact but you will be able to tell by looking for the brass contact, they only put it in the one they are using. Its also possible you have a broken wire at the ignition switch, a quick check for 12 Volts at the fuses would clear that up Of course there's also the possibility of a bad relay (46) or (49) use the bypassed stand relay and headlight relay in slot 4 & 5 to test. I agree with Chuck, those connectors are awful but that's not the problem in this case, the bike is not priming which is independent of the start button, it primes when the ECU relay closes.

Glad you like it, many thanks to Carl Allison for all the work he has done on Guzzi drawings Google Carl Allison drawings http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/sportissimo.html

The schematic shows several grounds around the ECU but I don't think it shows the one to the case, That one is not required to make the bike run but its general practice to ground any metal surrounding electronics, it helps shield it from nuclear explosions, death rays and such. The main ground directly below the battery is the most important it should be fixed to a gearbox bolt, some VIIs, mine includes had it attached to one of the screws holding the seat release lock. If the main ground becomes detached when you go to start the bike the starter current tries to find another way back to the battery, often through the long ground wire shown from the Voltage Regulator to battery negative. When your bike was nice and new the regulator was grounded to the chassis by its mounting bolts. All the charging current over 30 Amp spikes has to find it's way from the chassis to the regulator case so it can get back to the alternator, there is too much resistance in the black wire and you lose some Voltage thats why we add another ground from case to an engine bolt. (this only applies to the OEM Ducati Energia regulators, later ones have a dedicated ground wire)

You can buy the sensor here https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/vishay-bc-components/NTCLE203E3302SB0/BC2730-ND/2601763 The one you want has the R25 at 3000 Ohms NTCLE203E3302 SB They use 25 degrees C as a reference point. http://www.vishay.com/docs/29118/ntcle203.pdf On page 3 column 2

Have you heard someone say "When disconnecting the battery disconnect the Negative first", that's what happens if you don't. Never mind I see Rolf has it covered I think everyone does it once, the resulting flash gets your attention.

Last time I looked Digikey still had them. https://www.digikey.ca/products/en/relays/automotive-relays/962?k=&pkeyword=&sv=0&v=39&sf=0&FV=ffe003c2&quantity=&ColumnSort=0&page=1&pageSize=25 ARE TOU SURE its a 1C7T you want? That appears to be an oversize relay on the normal base. Ok that is what you want, I'm out of touch - Cheers Roy This is the one I always bought https://www.digikey.ca/product-detail/en/omron-electronics-inc-emc-div/G8HN-1C2T-R-DC12/Z2247-ND/765512