Kiwi_Roy

I wonder if the TPS is working, just measure the Voltage to chassis and make sure it's ramping up to about 4.5 Volts with the throttle opening.\, do this with the key On but not running. Another thing I would do is make sure relay 5 is turning On and staying on while cranking. (is the fuel pump and coils powered up? Is the timing sensor getting pulses) A test light connected from the 87 pin of relay 5 to chassis should stay On as long as the motor is turning but will go Off when it stalls and the timing sensor is not getting pulses. It's probably not electrical, but that's the easiest to eliminate.

Yes there is a Hall Effect TPS, I bought a Honeywell one a few years back, it was a little on the large side but there are smaller ones now that should work, I will see if I can locate one. Oh I see I already did on page 1, here's another http://www.vishay.com/docs/57103/981he.pdf Ok went downstairs and took the TPS Off, I have a PF3C/00 2240BE FROM Magnetti Marreli It turns CCW and is spring loaded to spring back CW So far I have the part No as 98H1E Basic part No 3 Spring return CW A 1% 1 90 degrees Z Custom, we need the 3 pin plug, anyone know the name for those? Otherwise we could wire the leads in B Analog CCW 8H00 Hollow shaft I'll send Vishay a note tomorrow and see if I can nail it down, I'm sure they can cross reference the MM part No

If it's a relay dropping out there's an easy way to prove/disprove that. A small lamp one side grounded to the bars, the other side to a small gauge wire wrapped around the 87 pin of relay 5 If it flickers there move it to the coil of relay 4 etc.

Yes skinny blades on 85,86 & 87a is standard if you look at the sockets they won't take a full size pin 85 & 86 are the coil connections only pass about 100 milliamps

That's interesting, I thought it would drop the battery down a bit Would you mind measuring the Voltage drop from battery + to the regulators black wire, just unplug it enough to get the meter probe on it. With no load on the headlight relay I think charging should be more reliable. WARNING, I'm going to wander off topic a bit My EV (very similar wiring) stopped charging altogether on a trip, would barely crank. I didn't have time to troubleshoot it so I took a hot wire from the battery and wrapped it around the pin for the regulator's black wire so I knew it was getting a good reference. A bump start got me going and I tried cranking next time I came to a hill, the charging was obviously working again. In hindsight I think I must have had a faulty Headlight relay. You can actually get a VII home without a regulator (I had to do this when I first got mine), a large diode or bridge rectifier will charge the battery but you have to keep the revs down or it overcharges and the ECU cuts out. On that note if the regulator were to quit it still has at least one good diode, ground one yellow wire from the alternator, connect the other to both yellows at the regulator and it should produce half wave DC out the red wire, no need for the reference connection.

Sorry Docc, are you saying you have removed your headlight from the headlight relay? I think Guzzi allowed for the Voltage drop to boost the Voltage to 14+ Without the headlight Voltage drop you can boost it up by creating an artificial drop in the black wire. Sent from my shoe phone!

Via the bulb is ok, that doesn't effect the regulators output Voltage All the regulator does is ground that wire to turn the light On, you can test the lamp by touching the pin to chassis.

Just make sure you get the shaft phased right when you put it back together, there should be a paint mark to line up.

You are right, it's not effected by the headlight circuit, the modern regulators sense the Voltage from the battery wires. I tried to access the wiring diagram to check on what the blue wire to dash is doing but I couldn't, is it a light or does it pick up from the ignition?

What happens when the bike sits after a recent run, does the airbox overheat, that may throw the sensor off for a few seconds until the fresh cool air gets to it. When I put pods on mine I moved the sensor to the front of the tank in the cool air, later when I put the airbox back I left it there. It shouldn't make any difference for a MyECU or 15M Nice looking bike BTW

SP838, Yes your aftermarket probably doesn't use the headlight circuit as a reference so in theory you should be able to increase the load. I gave up on the Ducati Energia as well, nothing wrong, it's the Guzzi wiring that lets it down. As for those wimpy wires going to the dimmer switch. I tapped into the Red/Black wire at the main connector under LH side of the tank and ran a fat wire to the headlight bucket where I have a single relay feeding the High & Low filaments, one wire from the dimmer switch picks up the coil to switch to High Beam, defaults to Low Beam, made a huge difference to headlight brightness. I also added a decent ground wire from the headlight back to the main chassis. Somewhere I read increasing the Voltage to the lamp filament pays back 5 fold in lamp brightness. The old recycled relays are good for projects like that.

When I first got my 2001 the regulator was sick so I pulled it apart to see if I could figure out what had happened. At the same time I reverse engineered it and drew a schematic so I could better understand how it's supposed to work. I found that the regulator senses the Voltage on the headlight circuit downstream of the relay and it likes to see 13.8 Volts between the black reference wire and the case There's normally a little bit of Voltage drop between the battery and the point downstream of the relay where the regulator measures caused by various resistances (wire, contacts etc.), my 01 was about 0.6V so for the regulator to see 13.8 the battery has to be at 13.8 + 0.6 or 14.4 Volts Now here's the problem, The Voltage drop is not consistent I saw mine normally about 0.6 rise to almost 1 Volt over the winter At 1 Volt it stands to reason the battery will have to reach 14.8 Volts to make the regulator happy. Increasing the headlight load (bigger lamp, more current) will create even more Voltage drop, remember Voltage is Current x Resistance. Getting back to my sick regulator I found that the diodes inside it had become so hot the leads melted off and you could see evidence of arcing. My conclusion as to what caused this was as follows. There was too much Voltage drop in the reference circuit (perhaps over a Volt) so the regulator pushed the battery Voltage higher to try and reach 13.8. until eventually the solder melted. The charge current for a battery is not linear with Voltage, it goes up exponentially with increase in Voltage,(this is over simplification but I suggest it lead to overheating because the regulator never got a break). The battery would be Overcharged because the regulator only saw a portion of the real Voltage and concluded it needed topping up. I think the solution is fairly obvious. It would be interesting to take a Voltage Drop survey from the owners, it's a good time of year when the bike has been languishing in a garage all winter it only takes a second. Before touching anything, with the key On measure the Voltage between battery + and the red/black wire where the regulator double plug connects to the loom this is the Voltage Drop. Now re-seat the relays in their sockets, I think you will find the Voltage Drop is less. Note: the early VIIs like my 2001 had more Voltage drop because they have 2 relay contacts in series with the headlight, the Normally Closed Start Relay 30/87A and Headlight Relay 30/87, later ones only have the headlight relay 30/87. You may wonder why the factory wired the bike that way, I can only guess. The Ducati Energia regulators draw quite a bit of current from the reference circuit, ~ 15 milliamps so they had to have a way of disconnecting it from the battery so as not to run it flat when the bike is not running. Putting it on the headlight relay seems like a reasonable solution. Modern direct connect regulators only draw a fraction of the current 0.3 milliamps but still I find I have to disconnect my new regulator over winter where I never had to disconnect the Ducati Energia wired to the headlight. Sorry about the long winded explanation

As Docc says, don't overload the existing headlight circuit or you risk screwing up charging which also taps into the circuit. How about just adding a pair of LED spotlights. On my VII I tapped into the wire going to the dimmer switch and ran it to a relay in the bucket where it picks up High and Low beam to take all the load off the dimmer switch. Relay energized for High, defaults to Low. Sent from my shoe phone!

Relay 1 n/c contact goes to the headlight relay, something loose in relay 1 was dropping out relay 2. A bad connection on the 30 contact perhaps since it also effected starting. Good on you for tracking it down. Sent from my shoe phone!

When you press the start button is it just a faint click from the relay A clunk from the solenoid but not enough torque from the motor to turn. Try this next time before you crank Attach your meter negative to the chassis somewhere with a clip Attach the positive lead to the spade connector with a clip Meter on 20 Volt range it will read zero but should red around 11 when you press start. If you think you might have a loose connection at the headlight bulb measure the Voltage. It's pretty hard to see the headlight or use your meter while riding but if you connect another small bulb (I like to use a 12V LED) and attach it somewhere you will easily notice if the Voltage is fluctuating and can do it safely in the daylight. Move the connection point around to test different parts of the circuit e.g. wrap the wire around pin 87 of the light relay. The main thing is to get a reliable connection to your circuit, I solder small wires straight to my test LED, you don't want an unreliable test lamp to add to the symptoms.

Re the light flicker The headlight is fed from the headlight relay, the headlight relay is fed from fuse 5, as long as the headlight relay is energized the headlight should stay on. The fact that the light is flickering suggests to me the relay might be dropping out. The coil of the headlight relay is fed from the normally open Start relay. The other side is connected to chassis (probably battery -) I just looked at the common wiring, there are other points of failure in the handlebar wiring. I don't thing the flickering at 2000 revs is related to the charging, may be a vibration thing. But wait a minute we are also having a starting problem, lets look at the start circuit We hear the start relay click but it doesn't supply enough current to close the starter solenoid (needs about 40 Amps) so trace that back to see where it comes from terminal 30 of the relay comes from the ignition switch, could it be that? lets go back even further to fuse 4, the other side of fuse 4 comes from the battery on the very same wire that fed fuse 5 could it be something there causing both problems? What else would cause the lights to flicker and stop the starter working, battery ground, if that was loose the lights would go out. Try putting the bike on the stand and with the light directed at the wall Key On Kill switch Off then wiggle the wiring around Fuse 4 and 5 reef on the battery wires, wiggle the main ground Test the starter direct, run a wire from the spade connector on the solenoid and touch it on battery positive. This should always make the starter spin if the battery and main connections are ok. Make sure the bike is in Neutral first I'm not even thinking about the battery charging at this stage.

I served my Electrical Apprenticeship in a railway workshop, we had lots of fairly large overhead gantry cranes running up and down the shops with an operator looking down. The motors for the cranes were wound rotor type wired to large resistor banks and drum controllers similar to what you might see on an old tram. The contacts on these drum controllers were large copper contacts and circular bands if copper. We used petroleum jelly aka Vaseline on the contacts, it doesn't conduct electricity but it lubricates the two surfaces rubbing together so they don't wear out. There may be better grease for contacts but I'll bet money no grease conducts electricity any better than Vaseline. That's safe to say because no organic grease conducts electricity.

A friend built this Royal Enfield incorporating a Hillman Imp car engine His aluminum work is stunning fenders, forks, chain case, exhaust I asked him how he got the curves, mainly hammering with frequent annealing followed by the english wheel

Thats the way my 2001 is wired. Notice how it bypasses the ignition switch, this bike will never suffer from Startus Interuptus. A couple of years later they used Fuse 5 for the headlight and used Fuse 4 through the ignition switch to try and feed the start relay, I'm guessing this improved on charging at the expense of reliable starting. Sorry about the sketch, you can check it from Carl's http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_V11_Sport_Catalytic.gif

The early VIIs like my 01 pass the headlight current through the NC contact of relay 1 then it goes through the NO contact of relay 2, 5 - 6 Amps (2 relays in series) http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/1999_V11_sport.gif The later VIIs, I think when they dropped the electric petcock only use the NC relay 1 contact to power the coil of relay 2, about 100 milliamps so the relays get a fairly easy life. http://www.thisoldtractor.com/guzzi007/schematics/2004_V11_Sport_Catalytic.gif Each scheme has advantages. The early one will never have a problem with Startus Interuptus because the start relay doesn't pull current through the ignition switch. BTW some of the other Guzzis use a Normally Closed sidestand relay, the EV for instance.

The Normally Open contacts are held closed by the coil which is stronger than the spring which closes the Normally Closed contact

Relay 5 is normally Open it's the state at rest (no power) they refer to. Sent from my shoe phone!

I wouldn't worry about being sealed, they are upside down under the seat The C in the part No is for form C normally open normally closed (5-pin) I think R is for resistor across the coil, 12 for 12 Volt coil I suspect the Panasonic will be good quality also

Yes I keep forgetting our $ is staring up from the bowl.

At 9500 miles it's barely run in, I would think it worth $8,000 based on the clapped out old VII Sport I bought for $4,800 I have never regretted buying that.