Red (short) Frame vs. Black (long) Frame

[swooshdave]

On 6/7/2019 at 12:01 AM, Lucky Phil said:

Yep the red frames are the ones to have. Anything else is a fat horrid lazy barge who's owners should be shunned........

Ciao

[Gmc28]

Putting this into the category of “i don’t really care”, because i like the way the bike rides regardless, but the talk of the quicker handling of the red vs black frame..... seems like just the wheel size would more than explain all of that.  The 3/4” of extra frame length of course should be a factor too technically, but i’m Assuming wheel size much  more so.

its been alluded to here, but seems like the frame length element rises to the top of the handling differences discussion still?.  Even with the same wheel, and the same tire size, just changing brands/styles of tires can yield a big change.  I went from a worn pirelli diablo to a new Shinko  705 on a Ducati, both same advertised size, but the Shinko was much more rounded in shape, and the change was freakishly apparent.  In that case i assume it was the front tire causing most of the change, but not sure because i changed front and back.  On another bike i just changed the rear tire to a slightly smaller size (i think i went with a 160 instead of a 170, cuz I happened to have it on the shelf), and with only that rear tire change the bike handled very different.  But a change in tire size, and then also a change wheel size, like with the 4.5 to the 5.5,  and you’re going to realize some real handling (turn-in, etc) changes.  The “hot rod” larger rear wheel/tire is just going to give that bit more ponderous handling (which is what i have with the Lemans).  I’ve got bikes with longer wheelbases but which handler quicker/lighter.  Not a bad thing, just a thing.

[LowRyter]

I agree that 170 rear narrower rim will turn quicker that the 180 wider rim.

 

But the red frames just prettier, handle better and so much faster (so long as it doesn't weave at speed with bags on and crack the transmission).  

[Gmc28]

49 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

I agree that 170 rear narrower rim will turn quicker that the 180 wider rim.

 

But the red frames just prettier, handle better and so much faster (so long as it doesn't weave at speed with bags on and crack the transmission).  

well then that settles it....  i'm painting my Lemans frame red, so it'll go faster!  can i just use touch up paint, or maybe some nice, hot, red lipstick?  :->

[Bbennett]

I ride a red frame with a 150 rear and feel it has a pretty quick turn in.  I have the rossopuro cardan bar FWIW. 

[footgoose]

1 hour ago, Bbennett said:

I ride a red frame with a 150 rear and feel it has a pretty quick turn in.  I have the rossopuro cardan bar FWIW. 

I have the rossopuro cardan bar FWIW. 

 

what is this?

[footgoose]

I have, and ride both. the red frame handles the curves much better, but I'm not the racy sort so.... something to do with the tire/rim size, and something to do with the short frame for sure. beyond that, the long frame is at home on my favorite type roads, long sweepers. If I were to build one for racing I'd put the money into a short one... with the bracing from a long one.

[Lucky Phil]

7 hours ago, LowRyter said:

I agree that 170 rear narrower rim will turn quicker that the 180 wider rim.

 

But the red frames just prettier, handle better and so much faster (so long as it doesn't weave at speed with bags on and crack the transmission).  

It's a WKF that red paint has much higher tensile strength than black hence the more chassis rigidity of the red framers and better handling.

You need to carry a post it note with "please turn" to stick to the top triple clamp every time you come to a corner with a black framer /sidecar hauler.

Real men like em to wriggle a bit when you're riding em.

ciao

[Tomchri]

Just wondering,,   the guys colorblind ?      No, it is the guy on the bike,,,,,

Cheers tom.

[Gmc28]

9 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

It's a WKF that red paint has much higher tensile strength than black hence the more chassis rigidity of the red framers and better handling.

You need to carry a post it note with "please turn" to stick to the top triple clamp every time you come to a corner with a black framer /sidecar hauler.

Real men like em to wriggle a bit when you're riding em.

ciao

I keep a stack of sticky notes in my tool kit.  Good for fixing flat tires as well.... "please re-inflate".

[Chuck]

Good idea..

[LowRyter]

I am glad we're all in agreement.  So it must all be true.   

[NEWELL]

On 9/17/2017 at 8:23 PM, docc said:

No apparent rake changes.

 

All V11 are 25º . . .

 

Scud's frames: 610mm - 590mm = 20mm.

 

Published wheelbases: 1490  - 1471 =  19mm.

 

Looks like the change is actually all in the frame length.

 

Scud! Well done!

Thanks, sir

[knumbnutz]

Actually I have to disagree..

The tank is the part thats 20mm longer. All guzzi have done is hide this by making to frame fit the longer tank. Mario on the production line made the longer tanks to fit the fuel pump and simply got luigi who makes the frames to cover for him. 

So it's no tanks to mario 

 

[docc]

6 hours ago, knumbnutz said:

Actually I have to disagree..

The tank is the part thats 20mm longer. All guzzi have done is hide this by making to frame fit the longer tank. Mario on the production line made the longer tanks to fit the fuel pump and simply got luigi who makes the frames to cover for him. 

So it's no tanks to mario 

 

That is an interesting perspective. When the frames changed, not only longer but with the cross-braced front and rear subframes and lower braces across the gearbox (along with the wider rear wheel/tire), the thinking was that this was all in response to persistent complaints in the press about the odd handling characteristics of the early Sports. While some of that was down to "expectations of what a Guzzi handles like,'  there were a collection of very real issues that affected the early Sport's stability and tendency to "weave" at high speed in a cross wind (like passing a truck on the freeway).

It occurs to me the LongFrame was introduced for the 2002 LeMans, still with the early tank style (external pump/fiter), while the Gen2 tank came out in 2003, if I am not mistaken (?)