teslas killing Motorcyclists

[KINDOY2]

Federal officials investigating two recent crashes involving Teslas that killed motorcyclists

Andy Greaser

 

Jul 28, 2022

 

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 200 Comments

Two motorcycle fatalities this month, including one this past weekend in Utah when a Tesla rear-ended a rider, are among the cases of crashes by cars using advanced driver assistance that are under investigation by federal officials.

In the most recent fatality, a Tesla driver rear-ended and fatally injured a 34-year-old motorcyclist shortly after 1 a.m. on Sunday, according to a report from the Utah Department of Public Safety (DPS). The motorcyclist was thrown from his vehicle and died at the scene. The Tesla driver told police that the 2020 Model 3’s Autopilot feature was engaged at the time of impact.

The collision happened in the southbound high occupancy vehicle (HOV) lane of I-15 near the city of Draper. The motorcyclist’s Harley-Davidson was in front of the Tesla and apparently the vehicle’s sensors did not detect the motorcycle ahead. The police report said the driver “did not see” the motorcycle and hit it from behind. The driver of the Tesla was not injured. No charges have been filed yet and the incident is still under investigation.

By federal law, solo motorcycle riders are allowed to use HOV lanes unless states seek an exception due to safety reasons.

Common Tread contacted the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) about the incident, and a media representative provided a list of all open Special Crash Investigations involving advanced driver assistance systems (ADAS). Of the 48 current cases from 2016 to present, 39 involve Tesla vehicles, and 14 of the Tesla crashes resulted in at least one fatality.

 

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The motorcycle, which appears to be a Harley-Davidson Sportster, was hit from behind. Utah DHS photo.

 

Due to the Tesla Autopilot’s alleged failure, the Utah case falls under the purview of the NHTSA’s Office of Defects Investigation (ODI). This is the second such case opened this month involving a motorcyclist fatality. On July 7, the driver of a 2021 Tesla Model Y struck and killed a 48-year-old motorcyclist on the Riverside Freeway in California. That case is also currently under investigation.

Tesla’s position as the self-proclaimed leader in ADAS technology, as well as the fact that ADAS is available for all Tesla models, only partly explains the brand’s overrepresentation in ADAS crashes and fatalities. Tesla’s current ADAS uses a camera array called Tesla Vision to detect other road users. Contrary to the Autopilot name, Tesla’s system is not fully autonomous, nor should the driver rely on Autopilot alone to safely operate the vehicle, per Tesla’s own instructions.

[docc]

A miserable state of affairs marketing the masses to believe they do not have to to think, act, or engage any (high) level of skill to operate a motor vehicle on today's roadways.

Locally, only the deer are more of a brainless threat . . .

[gstallons]

I am speechless. It is getting more deadly every year.

[footgoose]

What the car sensors "saw" or didn't see should be on record in it's memory, as well as whether auto pilot was engaged at collision.

It probably happened as described, but humans have kind of a bad record as well. Whatever the outcome - driver at fault. Idiot.

[gstallons]

It should not be difficult to decide "who" is in charge of driving/operating the vehicle .

[GuzziMoto]

Sounds like another case of someone treating Tesla's driver assist feature as an "Autopilot". Tesla keeps saying it is not Autopilot, but the confusion is understandable as they seem to promote it as such. They even refer to it as "Autopilot". But it is not.

I hope that the driver and Tesla pay for killing a motorcyclist, but I have little faith they will. That could have been anyone of us. It is just a matter of dumb luck. If Tesla and the idiots that buy them don't start paying a price for this it will continue.

[LowRyter]

awful.  I will say it's another example where riding faster than traffic, speeding, is a safer way to ride a motorcycle.  I always felt safer on major highways passing traffic rather than riding with it.  I've had to limit that due to excessive enforcement over the last 10 years.  Much more stressful to ride with traffic.

just my 2 cents

[Pressureangle]

13 hours ago, docc said:

A miserable state of affairs marketing the masses to believe they do not have to to think, act, or engage any (high) level of skill to operate a motor vehicle on today's roadways.

Locally, only the deer are more of a brainless threat . . .

Saw a vid of a Tesla hitting a deer, though it was a glancing blow on the mirror because the deer jumped back at the last second, the car made no change in speed or direction. 

[LaGrasta]

Here in SoCal, Teslas are more common than 911s, Camrys, and pickups combined. They are everywhere and always following behind too close or speeding far beyond all others around them. Most of their owners don't realize how fast they are, or how non-intelligent they are. They seem to get in, and let go.

My self-braking Kia also does a poor job of identifying cyclist quick enough. I must always be manual when cycles are around. I hate to admit it, but it is getting more dangerous. Texting while driving was bad, and this only adds to eh danger.

[80CX100]

Completely avoidable tragedies. 

Stupidity behind the wheel,that's a scary combo. 

I'm grateful that I don't have to ride in the city,4 lanes etc; but I agree with LowRyter,no matter where I ride;I like to be at least just a bit faster than traffic,so I'm the one in control of my ride & doing the passing.

As much as I can,I try to eliminate the possibility of someone coming up on me from behind. 

[docc]

8 hours ago, LowRyter said:

awful.  I will say it's another example where riding faster than traffic, speeding, is a safer way to ride a motorcycle.  I always felt safer on major highways passing traffic rather than riding with it.  I've had to limit that due to excessive enforcement over the last 10 years.  Much more stressful to ride with traffic.

just my 2 cents

 

34 minutes ago, 80CX100 said:

Completely avoidable tragedies. 

Stupidity behind the wheel,that's a scary combo. 

I'm grateful that I don't have to ride in the city,4 lanes etc; but I agree with LowRyter,no matter where I ride;I like to be at least just a bit faster than traffic,so I'm the one in control of my ride & doing the passing.

As much as I can,I try to eliminate the possibility of someone coming up on me from behind. 

When I was involved with Motorcycle Safety Training, we were privileged to learn a Highway Patrol technique of moving past traffic at a "walking pace."

Combined with maintaining a "space cushion" and constantly monitoring the rear view, this technique has served well.

Admittedly, I still get snuck-up-on from behind from time to time . . .

[audiomick]

I'm reminded of a job I had in 2017 or 2018. It was the internal presentation of the then new version of the Mercedes Benz Actros truck range. Things like cameras instead of mirrors, lane-holding assistant, automatic braking when something pops up in front of the truck. Lots of assistents, always with the comment "within the limits of the system". Also things like a sensor that should be able to tell if someone is holding the wheel, and a sensor that should be able to tell if someone is actually sitting on the driver's seat, required by law to be able to sell those assistents here.

I can see the advantage of those assistents, particularly for truck drivers. But I wasn't happy about it. Watching the presentations, I could see ways to (possibly) trick the system into believing that a human was monitoring the situation (a brick on the seat, and rubber bands on the steering wheel, to put it simply...), and the temptation for the driver to believe that the truck has it all under control, and he doesn't need to concentrate on his job. The way it was being marketed tended more to foster that way of thinking than to foster caution and awareness of the limits of the system.

A real , mostly infallible and reliable autopilot will come along some day. I reckon we're still quite a long way from it.

Although I am fully aware that when such things are really available I might desperately need them because I possibly wont be able to drive myself anymore, I don't like them. I notice myself that even the function of the cruise control in my car that sets a maximum speed (not hold a speed, but rather sets an upper limit) reduces my concentration on driving.

Autonomous vehicles will become the norm, but they just aren't here yet, and drivers need to remain aware of this.

[Lucky Phil]

It gets worse. This guy Greg is a commercial pilot/Captain that flies for a US airline. All his stuff esp on WW2 aircraft is excellent and very detailed. He has a Car gig on the side and has authored books on Turbocharging cars etc. He's a long way from some sort of conspiracy theorist.

Phil

[80CX100]

13 hours ago, docc said:

 

When I was involved with Motorcycle Safety Training, we were privileged to learn a Highway Patrol technique of moving past traffic at a "walking pace."

Combined with maintaining a "space cushion" and constantly monitoring the rear view, this technique has served well.

Admittedly, I still get snuck-up-on from behind from time to time . . .

This technique has served me well over a lifetime,but as they say about the best laid plans of mice & men 

At this point,I now ride no faster,than my sight lines allow.

Roads through heavily wooded hilly areas,don't have a lot of curves you can see through;so there are times my speeds are slower than I'd like.

If I'm lucky,anyone coming up from behind,is sober,of sound mind,mood & judgement,,,, if I get the impression they're not;I take the earliest opportunity to turn off or lose them & clean my tail.

It's humbling on a back road riding a motorcycle,being outpaced by a soccer mom in a mini van or a guy in a 1/2 ton pick up, but there are lots of people driving on the roads, who simply do not give af. 

 

[Joe]

A lot of opinions expressed here, one question who on this thread has even driven a Tesla? My guess close to none. I have driven one for work just under 15k miles so far this year, my company didn’t buy the Auto pilot option up front but can be turned on for $199 a month. That said, my 23 Model Y uses cameras not proximity sensor’s like earlier models. It has audible alarms to alert if you get on the lines of the road, it’s over the top in knowing its surroundings at all times. To say it’s unsafe is unknowledgeable rubbish. Letting the car drive you down the road is not far off, but currently not perfected. Tesla’s are overall safer than standard cars.